Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u8P9gtrG027895 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:42:55 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1bo5tP-0000Rd-Rm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:38:39 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1bo5tP-0000RU-1v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:38:39 +0100 Received: from smtp10.smtpout.orange.fr ([80.12.242.132] helo=smtp.smtpout.orange.fr) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1bo5tM-0007e8-En for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 10:38:37 +0100 Received: from PCPMF ([83.192.31.70]) by mwinf5d33 with ME id nleX1t00E1WmhfX03leXlG; Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:38:34 +0200 X-ME-Helo: PCPMF X-ME-Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:38:34 +0200 X-ME-IP: 83.192.31.70 Message-ID: <19771A4FE3F240239C54CD72681C2123@PCPMF> From: "F6CNI - Andy - JN19QB" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:38:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 160924-1, 24/09/2016), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Scan-Signature: 321ff684ea5941bc203a0284601061e8 Subject: Re: LF: good night on MF WSPR @G7NKS 1933km @ 50mW erp - winter plans Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01D21721.5684A960" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8840 Ce message est composi et au format MIME. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01D21721.5684A960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello James. Congrats your results on WSPR2 MF. I just computed, using the EZNEC PRO V6.0 software, your antenna with = the 52 Ohms base resistance part, an average soil in the Fraunhofer zone = and 25 Watts output TX. Here the results : =B7 Base antenna Z =3D 52 - 1300 j and 900 Volts RF RMS ; =B7 F/B ratio 1.4 dB ; =B7 Efficiency =96 21 dB, so about 200 mW ERP ; =B7 Maxi lobe -18 dBi at 20=B0 site, so about 400 mW EIRP ; =B7 Ibase =3D 0.7 A , Itop =3D 0.5 A , Total Amperes x meters =3D = 7.2 in the vertical wire. =B7 To get 1 W EIRP, you need about 60 Watts output TX. Note that results are exactly the same if you test the very very fb, = easy to use and accurate =AB Antenna simulator =BB computed by rik ON7YD = / OR7T : http://www.472khz.org/pages/about-this-site.php Best 73. Andy. From: James Cowburn=20 Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 9:11 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: good night on MF WSPR @G7NKS 1933km @ 50mW erp - winter = plans=20 Prop'n seems to be improving. Iceland and Finland last night on MF, = nearly 2000km on about 50mW ERP. =20 Roll on the cold dark nights! =20 Simple set up @ G7NKS =20 IC706mk2g via current meter and home brew 7 pole LPF into coax out some = 15m to a tapped loading coil into an inverted L (12m high on a = fibreglass telescopic pole and 30m top wire across roof) =20 Earthing via a mish-mash of stakes & bonding to oil tank feeder pipe = (buried) and some steel mesh under patio slabs and block paved drive. =20 Checking via the RigExpert AA1000 analyser shows an impedance of 52 ohm = and a return loss of -25dB @ 474.2khz. For the local IO92 and Newark = Sunday morning net with G3XIZ, M0JXM, G3DXZ, G4GIR occasionally and = M0FMT, we use around 473.3khz and this occassionally warrants a quick = tap up or down by half a turn. Also when it rains like today, there's a = tweak needed sometimes as the top wire capacitance to roof changes as it = becomes more electrolytic and less air spaced! =20 PC is a Dell Studio 1749 running WSPR 2.12. =20 The IC706mk2G will run at about 25% max power on 472 so about 25w but = not all of that is at 472 of course, I estimate I'm getting 50mW ERP = using a very helpful spreadsheet/calc provided by Stefan. =20 =20 On a 15% duty cycle it all remains happily cool. =20 It does have a tendency to fight with our cheap home broadband router = supplied by British Telecom, resulting in the "Orange Light of Death" = and subsequent grief from XYL and 2 teenagers as their Netflix/Music = stream/Online gaming has just fallen over! Ferrite toroids have been = spectacularly unsuccessful in remedying this. The best solution has = been to try to run the CAT5 cables in my office as perpendicular to the = coax feed and line of roof top wire as possible to minimise pick up and = cross talk, but this hasn't really been that effective either. =20 A bigger issue on Rx is the noise pick up from both Dell (genuine kit = and not cheap copies either, which is annoying!) PSUs that feed the = Studio and the XPS17 which is my main office PC. On batteries, I get = about S1-3 of noise which is very good, but as soon as the PSU's are = used and are under "load" then this rockets up to S7-9! If they are = powered on, but not driving the laptops i.e. disconnected, then they = have no impact. I'm wondering if it is the load that makes them = noisier or whether the whole laptop acts as an augmented antenna when = they are connected to it? =20 I've tried putting them in shielded earthed metal boxes (biscuit tins!) = with no effect. (biscuits were nice though!). Similarly, stacked = ferrite toroids on the mains inputs and DC power out have had zero = impact. They both have a very bright blue LED on the power cable = whereas older units for my Dell D610/20 series did not have this = "bauble" and were much quieter, but also were lower rated at 60W or 90W = as opposed to these beasts which are around 120W to 150W, and run = alarmingly warm at times!=20 =20 The Rx noise doesn't seem to affect my WSPR reception but it does impact = on me hearing G3DXZ (Chas) from Newark on the Sunday Net, so for that I = just run the show on batteries during the Rx overs.=20 =20 When I get "a round Tuit" I am going to follow the very detailed = instructions from John in the US and feed the 706 into my recently = acquired Hafler Transnova 3000 (approx 400w). Cheers John. =20 While I will unlikely get 400W I suspect I might get 250W which is 10dB = up on my current input power and hopefully about 500mW ERP and that may = be enough to hop the pond.=20 =20 As for 137KHz and down=85=85. =20 The 706 will generate a very weak signal at 137 probably only around 1mW = but if I can get that into the Hafler then that=92s my net project, work = and weather permitting. I acquired some coils from the SK estate of the = late great G3ACQ and they will happily resonate my "L" onto LF.=20 =20 My other (better) plan is to use the 0dBm output on my Elad FDM Duo and = a 1W broadband RF amp off Ebay to give me 1W output at 137 and feed = that into the Hafler, so plenty to do. =20 The ELAD will also go down to sub 9Khz on the 0dBm output so I may try = to re-start my dreaming experiments and also try some of Roger G3XBM = earth loop electrode arrangements =20 The local 472 net nr to IO92ub will be on air from about 9am local today = and most Sundays so feel free to join in! =20 Chris G3XIZ is usually "Net Controller" and "chief documenter". =20 =20 Best 73s =20 =20 Jim =20 =20 Dr. Jim Cowburn G7NKS IO92ub =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01D21721.5684A960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello = James.

 

Congrats your results on = WSPR2=20 MF.

 

I just computed, using = the EZNEC PRO=20 V6.0 software, your antenna with the 52 Ohms base resistance part, an = average=20 soil in the Fraunhofer zone and 25 Watts output TX. Here the results=20 :

 

=B7       =20 Base antenna Z =3D 52 - 1300 j and 900 Volts = RF RMS=20 ;

=B7       =20 F/B ratio 1.4 dB ;

=B7       =20 Efficiency =96 21 dB, so about 200 mW ERP=20 ;

=B7       =20 Maxi lobe -18 dBi at 20=B0 site, so about 400 = mW EIRP=20 ;

=B7       =20 Ibase =3D 0.7 A , Itop =3D 0.5 A , Total = Amperes x meters =3D=20 7.2 in the vertical wire.

=B7       =20 To get 1 W EIRP, you need about 60 Watts = output=20 TX.

 

Note that results are = exactly the=20 same if you test the very very fb, easy to use and accurate =AB Antenna = simulator=20 =BB computed by rik ON7YD / OR7T : http://www.472khz.org/pages/about-this-site.php

 

Best = 73.

 

Andy.

 

 
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 9:11 AM
Subject: LF: good night on MF WSPR @G7NKS 1933km @ 50mW erp = - winter=20 plans
 

Prop'n seems to be = improving. =20 Iceland and=20 Finland last night on MF, = nearly=20 2000km on about 50mW ERP.

 

Roll on the cold dark=20 nights!

 

Simple set up @=20 G7NKS

 

IC706mk2g via current = meter and home=20 brew 7 pole LPF into coax out some 15m to a tapped loading coil into an = inverted=20 L (12m high on a fibreglass telescopic pole and 30m top wire across=20 roof)

 

Earthing via a mish-mash = of stakes=20 & bonding to oil tank feeder pipe (buried) and some steel mesh under = patio=20 slabs and block paved drive.

 

Checking via the RigExpert = AA1000=20 analyser shows an impedance of 52 ohm and a return loss of -25dB @=20 474.2khz.   For the local IO92 and Newark Sunday morning net = with=20 G3XIZ, M0JXM, G3DXZ, G4GIR occasionally and M0FMT, we use around = 473.3khz and=20 this occassionally warrants a quick tap up or down by half a turn.  = Also=20 when it rains like today, there's a tweak needed sometimes as the top = wire=20 capacitance to roof changes as it becomes more electrolytic and less air = spaced!

 

PC is a Dell Studio = 1749 =20 running WSPR 2.12.

 

The IC706mk2G will run at = about 25%=20 max power on 472 so about 25w but not all of that is at 472 of course, I = estimate I'm getting 50mW ERP using a very helpful spreadsheet/calc = provided by=20 Stefan. 

 

On a 15% duty cycle it all = remains=20 happily cool.

 

It does have a tendency to = fight=20 with our cheap home broadband router supplied by British Telecom, = resulting in=20 the "Orange Light of Death" and subsequent grief from XYL and 2 = teenagers as=20 their Netflix/Music stream/Online gaming has just fallen = over!   =20 Ferrite toroids have been spectacularly unsuccessful in remedying = this. =20 The best solution has been to try to run the CAT5 cables in my office as = perpendicular to the coax feed and line of roof top wire as possible to = minimise=20 pick up and cross talk, but this hasn't really been that effective=20 either.

 

A bigger issue on Rx is = the=20 noise  pick up from both Dell (genuine kit and  not cheap = copies=20 either, which is annoying!) PSUs that feed the Studio and the XPS17 = which is my=20 main office PC. On batteries, I get about S1-3 of noise which is very = good, but=20 as soon as the PSU's are used and are under "load" then this rockets up = to=20 S7-9!  If they are powered on, but not driving the laptops i.e.=20 disconnected, then they have no impact.    I'm wondering = if it is=20 the load that makes them noisier or whether the whole laptop acts as an=20 augmented antenna when they are connected to = it?

 

I've tried putting them in = shielded=20 earthed metal boxes (biscuit tins!) with no effect. (biscuits were nice=20 though!).  Similarly, stacked ferrite toroids on the mains inputs = and DC=20 power out have had zero impact.  They both have a very bright blue = LED on=20 the power cable whereas older units for my Dell D610/20 series did not = have this=20 "bauble" and were much quieter, but also were lower rated at 60W or 90W = as=20 opposed to these beasts which are around 120W to 150W, and run = alarmingly warm=20 at times!

 

The Rx noise doesn't seem = to affect=20 my WSPR reception but it does impact on me hearing G3DXZ (Chas) from = Newark on the = Sunday Net,=20 so for that I just run the show on batteries during the Rx overs.=20

 

When I get "a round Tuit" = I am going=20 to follow the very detailed instructions from John in the = US = and feed the=20 706 into my recently acquired Hafler Transnova 3000  (approx=20 400w).   Cheers John.

 

While I will unlikely get = 400W I=20 suspect I might get 250W which is 10dB up on my current input power and=20 hopefully about 500mW ERP and that may be enough to hop the pond.=20

 

As for 137KHz and=20 down=85=85.

 

The 706 will generate a = very weak=20 signal at 137 probably only around 1mW but if I can get that into the = Hafler=20 then that=92s my net project, work and weather permitting.  I = acquired some=20 coils from the SK estate of the late great G3ACQ and they will happily = resonate=20 my "L" onto LF.

 

My other (better) plan is = to use the=20 0dBm output on my Elad FDM Duo and a 1W broadband RF amp off Ebay  = to give=20 me 1W output at 137 and feed that into the Hafler, so plenty to=20 do.

 

The ELAD will also go down = to sub=20 9Khz on the 0dBm output so I may try to re-start my dreaming experiments = and=20 also try some of Roger G3XBM earth loop electrode=20 arrangements

 

The local 472 net nr to = IO92ub will=20 be on air from about 9am local today and most Sundays so feel free to = join=20 in!

 

Chris G3XIZ is usually = "Net=20 Controller" and "chief documenter". 

 

Best 73s =20

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. Jim=20 Cowburn  G7NKS   IO92ub

 

 

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