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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Hi Neil, Then only published info that I'm aware of is the ELF antenna used by the USA to transmit ELF signals on 76 Hz to submarines. This was 'Project Sanguine'. It used about 15 miles of power cabl [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [77.238.179.188 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (evad_hine[at]yahoo.co.uk) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID BODY: Test for Invalidly Named or Formatted Colors in HTML 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: cbf9d9751ac5f32708197d03fa6d8d74 Subject: Re: VLF: GOTA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_26312042_1729606472.1547198995995" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.2 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_26312042_1729606472.1547198995995 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Neil, Then only published info that I'm aware of is the ELF antenna used= by the USA to transmit ELF signals on 76 Hz to submarines. This was 'Proje= ct Sanguine'. It used about 15 miles of power cable suspended on 30 foot po= les above ground and was earthed at each=C2=A0 end. A TX of around 5 Megawatts, about half way along this cable supplied t= he 76 Hz at a few hundred Amps. The radiated power was around 3 Watts, and = was just sufficient to travel the globe. Project Sanguine was abandoned som= e years ago, as it fell obsolete as new sophisticated comms replaced it, su= ch as satellites etc.. It was very expensive, only one way comms, and the 1= 5 mile of cable was constantly being attacked by vandals and metal thieves.= Russia still uses a similar system on 82 Hz (Zevs), and they shoot to kill= anyone tampering with their cable!!!=C2=A0There is an excellent Wikipedia = page on Project Sanguine. Basically, it was a very inefficient monster narr= ow loop.Otherwise, conventional Marconi vertical masts tuned against ground= are used for VLF TX'ing the vertically polarised signals, at any=C2=A0 VLF frequency up to the LW broadcasting band.From my experience, long low m= etal structures of any kind do not make good VLF / ELF TX antennas, and for= that reason are never employed.Also, they do not generate a vertically pol= arised signal, which is very necessary for VLF and ELF propagation. The his= toric 'Beverage' type of horizontal wire antenna is long, but only suitable= for reception (very inefficient as a TX antenna).Vertical balloon suspende= d wires do work, but you must observe the maximum height restrictions allow= ed in any particular location.I hope this is useful.Kind regards, David =C2= =A0 From: Neil To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2019, 21:23 Subject: Re: VLF: GOTA =20 This sounds interesting. Can you point at any published results to explain= what technique was used, what power was used to obtain those results, and = how the signal was launched? I imagine lots of people are considering the u= se of long lengths of metal infrastructure (on private land, with the expre= ss permission of the landowner), so if there is a solution which is demonst= rably better, it would save a lot of unnecessary trouble for experimenters.= Do you have any numbers comparing the technique used in these experiments = against those obtained from using long lengths of armco or metal fencing or= huge bridges, (putting aside any arguments about the rights and wrongs).= =C2=A0 It would be good to see a documented comparison to show by what marg= in the experimental technique used is superior to using low steel structure= s with a large horizontal extent. Neil On 10/01/2019 18:37, David Hine wrote: =20 =20 ... TX connexions to motorway=C2=A0=20 guard rails, railway infrastructure, electric / gas supply utilities and = fences etc. are totally unnecessary for the transmitting of ELF=C2=A0=20 signals.=C2=A0=20 These DO NOT make good VLF / ELF TX antennas .. =20 =20 ------=_Part_26312042_1729606472.1547198995995 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi= Neil, Then only published info that I'm aware of is the ELF antenna used b= y the USA to transmit ELF signals on 76 Hz to submarines. This was 'Project= Sanguine'. It used about 15 miles of power cable suspended on 30 foot pole= s above ground and was earthed at each 

end. A TX of around 5 Megawatts, about half= way along this cable supplied the 76 Hz at a few hundred Amps. The radiate= d power was around 3 Watts, and was just sufficient to travel the globe. Pr= oject Sanguine was abandoned some years ago, as it fell obsolete as new sop= histicated comms replaced it, such as satellites etc.. It was very expensiv= e, only one way comms, and the 15 mile of cable was constantly being attack= ed by vandals and metal thieves. Russia still uses a similar system on 82 H= z (Zevs), and they shoot to kill anyone tampering with their cable!!! =
There is= an excellent Wikipedia page on Project Sanguine. Basically, it was a very = inefficient monster narrow loop.
Otherwise, conventional Marconi vertical masts tune= d against ground are used for VLF TX'ing the vertically polarised signals, = at any 

= VLF frequency up to the LW broadcasting band.
From my experience, long low metal str= uctures of any kind do not make good VLF / ELF TX antennas, and for that re= ason are never employed.
Also, they do not generate a vertically polarised signal, w= hich is very necessary for VLF and ELF propagation. The historic 'Beverage' type of horizontal wire antenna is = long, but only suitable for reception (very inefficient as a TX antenna).
Vertical balloon suspended wires do wor= k, but you must observe the maximum height restrictions allowed in any part= icular location.
I hope this is useful.
Kind regards, David  


From: Neil <neil@g4dbn.uk>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Thursday, 10 January= 2019, 21:23
Subject: = Re: VLF: GOTA

This sounds interesting. Can you point at any published results to explain what technique was used, what power was used to obtain those results, and how the signal was launched? I imagine lots of people are considering the use of long lengths of metal infrastructure (on private land, with the express permission of the landowner), so if there is a solution which is demonstrably better, it would save a lot of unnecessary trouble for experimenters.
Do you have any numbers comparing the technique used in these experiments against those obtained from using long lengths of armco or metal fencing or huge bridges, (putting aside any arguments about the rights and wrongs).  It would be good to see= a documented comparison to show by what margin the experimental technique used is superior to using low steel structures with a large horizontal extent.
Neil
On 10/01/2019 18:37, David Hi= ne wrote:
... TX connexions to motorway 

guard rails, railway infrastructure, electric / gas supply utilities and fences etc. are totally unnecessary for the transmitting of ELF 

signals. 

These DO NOT make good VLF / ELF TX antennas ..
=20


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