Return-Path: Received: from rly-dd07.mx.aol.com (rly-dd07.mail.aol.com [172.19.141.154]) by air-dd06.mail.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDD061-b8b498227cf130; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:04:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-dd07.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDD075-b8b498227cf130; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:04:01 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LSez6-0001Jz-FO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:03:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LSez6-0001Jq-0b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:03:40 +0000 Received: from smtp809.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.69]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LSez5-0004Ku-En for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:03:39 +0000 Received: (qmail 29955 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2009 22:03:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=LjiJeQYZlw0fXa87XV0XS4uLI2ein24ttgPIf3Fh8Iq/3wmb0vA2HbgJ6uahc3LPMuvAy6kS/FHXVlaEwtK2kvKoFUrPe2cXtGa3LNDF1T4tPO4rIFbn3Jwbk7605N3OUs05FwTJcM7Qd+YTTD4k113jNFuNlwSZqvsC821lZbc= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.135.206.173 with login) by smtp809.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2009 22:03:32 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lkaax7gVM1lwFvsGOYhwshE8J0G6LzPE22jGr.5PpDV5g7_9FPrWsXey3JpYsgOxcBgIHYHmetULYOKJKy5ioitbxDROEdRyEJbVvDqCNXkzscDzZNNd11RF9X7DcV04KCCaM3sWQ_tCtY1mX.dfgCRu.K2EPla4fE0C65k8v.yuBJ1mP2XWueCzE6Ak X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <172D99CA495841DC87784DBC9160975A@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <200901291143090013.08822D48@smtp.wanadoo.fr> In-Reply-To: <200901291143090013.08822D48@smtp.wanadoo.fr> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:03:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-Karma: unknown: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Ferrite toroid cores using HEM series materials Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear John, LF Group, Most of these "EMC" cores are made of something similar to Fair-Rite #43 material, with mu of around 850. They will work quite well at LF and MF, although a given size of core will require about 1.5 times as many turns as the "traditional" 3C85/90/95 etc materials to get the same inductance. Unfortunately, the distributors have only heard of ferrite cores being used to put on cables to supress noise, so they don't know much about materials, and usually classify according to size, and, if you are lucky, impedance in the HF/VHF range, which is not very relevant to LF. You can make a reasonably accurate determination of the permeability by measuring the inductance of a core wound with several turns to get AL = L / n^2, The formula relating AL, mu, cross-sectional area, and magnetic path length is AL = 4pi * 100 * mu *A/l with cross sectional area of the magnetic path A in square metres, and magnetic path length l in metres (in the case of toroidal shapes, this is roughly the average of the inner and outer circumferences of the core), and mu is the relative permeability. Once you know what permeability you have, you can be fairly sure behaviour will be near to that of a material with similar mu in one of the manufacturer's catalogues, e.g. Ferroxcube or Fair-Rite Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU