Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id x26CId1a003970 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 13:18:47 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1h1VPk-0004F9-6t for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 12:12:48 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1h1VPe-0004F0-Hc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 12:12:42 +0000 Received: from smtp3web.tin.it ([212.216.176.237]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1h1VPb-0005Tg-ES for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 12:12:40 +0000 Received: from feu10 (10.192.64.20) by smtp3web.tin.it (8.6.060.43) id 5C6AECD2003BFFEC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 13:12:36 +0100 Received: from (93.146.209.118) by webmailtin.pc.tim.it; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 13:12:36 +0100 Message-ID: <16952eb76c5.marcocadeddu@tin.it> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 13:12:36 +0100 (CET) From: "marcocadeddu@tin.it" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 93.146.209.118:50998 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: wow how many people here have some relationship with chemistry! ;-) although more more interested to the organolectic analysis :-D 73, Marco ----Messaggio originale---- Da: markusvester@aol.com Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.216.176.237 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [212.216.176.237 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (marcocadeddu[at]tin.it) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 72f3686d3f5e154c987315e88c667a5f Subject: R: Re: VLF: Chemistry... Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_50921_3043273.1551874356936" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false ------=_Part_50921_3043273.1551874356936 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable wow how many people here have some relationship with chemistry! ;-) althoug= h more more interested to the organolectic analysis :-D 73, Marco ----Messaggio originale---- Da: markusvester@aol.com Data: 6-mar-2019 11.59 A: Ogg: Re: VLF: Chemistry... Congrats to Jacek, Marcin and Paul!> ...chemistry :-) do we ground a specia= l section of the LF Group?Guess we'd call that a radiochemistry club then ;= -) Anyway a Polish tradition, since the great work by Marie Sklodowska Curi= e. Could you perhaps post a picture of your Al - NaOH hydrogen apparatus used = for the balloon activity? 73, Markus-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----Von: marcocadeddu@tin.it <= marcocadeddu@tin.it>An: rsgb_lf_group Verschi= ckt: Di, 5. Mrz 2019 17:06Betreff: R: RE: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Pol= andHello Marcin, hello Jacek!it is nice to find a couple of chemistry gradu= ates who find also actractive MF/LF and VLF!I'm also a graduate in chemistr= y :-) do we ground a special section of the LF group? :-Danybody else here = with chemistry background?73, Marco IK1HSS ----Messaggio originale----Da: bxi@go2.plData: 4-mar-2019 22.07A: Ogg: RE: VLF: ebnaut transmission from PolandHello Ste= fan!Thank you, Stefan, for your remarks and your good words. Unfortunately,= theantenna was mounted in a public venue that's why we had to take it down= justafter our tests. We wanted to see whether it is possible to work in VL= Fusing basic equipment. Once the weather conditions are good enough on awee= kend I'll send an antenna mounted to a baloon into the air. I've alreadydon= e something similar working on 472kHz. https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/2= 018/12/16/eksperyment-w-pasmie-630m-z-antena-unoszona-za-pomoca-balonu/Curr= ently I'm building antenna coils on ferrite cores with high AL=3D12700.The = circuit of the autotransformer has already been tested.When Jacek has a fre= e weekend, we will be experimenting.73! Marcin SQ2BXI -----Original Message-----From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org On Behalf Of DK7FCSent: Monday, March 4, 2019 1= 0:27 AMTo: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.orgSubject: Re: VLF: ebnaut transmissio= n from PolandHi Jacek, Marcin,Well done! Congratulations to a first VLF sig= nal coming from SP that isdetected over such a distance, more than 1000 km!= This is truely encouragingand shows what could be done by MANY amateurs, i= f they would just give it atry!A milestone for your country, from an amateu= r radio view.Thanks for the details in that website. It is interesting to s= ee that suchground loop antennas seem to work even in regions where the gro= undconductivity is expected to be quite high. Thanks to Paul's decode, you = nowhave the certainty that the signal actually propagates.Well, the ground = loop seems to radiate into Paul's direction and there is alot of water on y= our path (between you and Paul). Also we (DL0AO and DK7FC)are closer to QRN= sources in south-east Europe. This will contibute to ournegative decode re= sult here.On the other side we saw that the signal also propagates into une= xpecteddirections, at least as long as the QRB is lower than 2000 km.It wou= ld be most welcome to see more activity from your side! And it lookslike yo= u can rise the ERP by 10 dB without much effort. Are you planningmore exper= iments? And when? :-) The EbNaut message was transmitted during atime where= phase changes are likely, because it was during the sunrise atyour locatio= n. Maybe you can repeat the experiment, using 2 characterstransmitted over = 6 hours, starting 21 UTC for example? That would help us,here in the south,= to receive your message.I will have a look at my signal recording to see t= he SNR for the message'SP' later.At 75W and 300V antenna voltage you had 25= 0 mA antenna current and, as youwrote, 1200 Ohm. If you have 500 Ohm DC res= istance then i conclude that youdid not series resonate the antenna. The re= active component wasj1090 Ohm, so a series C of 177 nF (100+47+22 nF) woul= d help to reduce thefeed point impedance to 500 Ohm. Not sure if you could = then run a higherpower but at least the PA losses would be a bit lower.With= some cheap 0.75mm2 CCA loudspeaker cable you could reduce the wirelosses b= y about 90%.All this is very nice promising!Good luck and i hope to get a n= ew chance to receive you here soon.73, Stefan ------=_Part_50921_3043273.1551874356936 Content-Type: text/html;charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
wow how many people here have some relationship with chemistry! ;-) al= though more more interested to the organolectic analysis :-D

=
73, Marco


----Messaggio originale----
Da: markusvester@aol.com
Data: 6-mar-2019 11.59
A: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Ogg: Re: VLF: Chemistry...

Congrats to Jacek,= Marcin and Paul!

> ...chemistry :-= ) do we ground a special section of the LF Group?

Guess we'd call that a radiochemistry club then ;-)&n= bsp;Anyway a Polish tradition, since the great work by Marie Sklo= dowska Curie.

Could you perhaps post a picture of your Al - NaOH hyd= rogen apparatus used for the balloon activity?

73, Markus

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: marcocadeddu@tin.it <marcocadeddu@tin.it>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Di, 5. Mrz 2019 17:06
Betreff: R: R= E: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland

=
Hello Marcin, hello Jacek!

it is nice to find a couple of chemistry graduates who find= also actractive MF/LF and VLF!
I'm also a graduate in chemistry = :-) do we ground a special section of the LF group? :-D

anybody else here with chemistry background?

73, Marco IK1HSS

----Messaggio originale----
Da: bxi@go2.pl
Data: 4-mar-2019 22.07
A: <rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org>
Ogg: RE: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland

Hello Stefan!

Thank you, Stefan, for your remarks and your= good words. Unfortunately, the
antenna was mounted in a = public venue that's why we had to take it down just
after= our tests. We wanted to see whether it is possible to work in VLF
using basic equipment. Once the weather conditions are good enoug= h on a
weekend I'll send an antenna mounted to a baloon i= nto the air. I've already
done something similar working = on 472kHz.
https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/2018/12/16= /eksperyment-w-pasmie-630m-z-an
tena-unoszona-za-pomoca-b= alonu/

Currently I'm building antenna = coils on ferrite cores with high AL=3D12700.
The circuit = of the autotransformer has already been tested.
When Jace= k has a free weekend, we will be experimenting.
73! Marci= n SQ2BXI

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
<owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org> On Behalf Of DK7FC
Sent: Mond= ay, March 4, 2019 10:27 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.o= rg
Subject: Re: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland

Hi Jacek, Marcin,

Well done! Congratulations to a first VLF signal coming from S= P that is
detected over such a distance, more than 1000 k= m! This is truely encouraging
and shows what could be don= e by MANY amateurs, if they would just give it a
try!
A milestone for your country, from an amateur radio view.
Thanks for the details in that website. = It is interesting to see that such
ground loop antennas s= eem to work even in regions where the ground
conductivity= is expected to be quite high. Thanks to Paul's decode, you now
have the certainty that the signal actually propagates.
Well, the ground loop seems to radiate into Paul's direction and ther= e is a
lot of water on your path (between you and Paul). = Also we (DL0AO and DK7FC)
are closer to QRN sources in so= uth-east Europe. This will contibute to our
negative deco= de result here.
On the other side we saw that the signal = also propagates into unexpected
directions, at least as l= ong as the QRB is lower than 2000 km.

= It would be most welcome to see more activity from your side! And it looks<= br clear=3D"none">like you can rise the ERP by 10 dB without much effort. A= re you planning
more experiments? And when? :-) The EbNau= t message was transmitted during a
time where phase chang= es are likely, because it was during the sunrise at
your = location. Maybe you can repeat the experiment, using 2 characters
transmitted over 6 hours, starting 21 UTC for example? That would= help us,
here in the south, to receive your message.
I will have a look at my signal recording to see the SNR for= the message
'SP' later.

At 75W and 300V antenna voltage you had 250 mA antenna current and, as= you
wrote, 1200 Ohm. If you have 500 Ohm DC resistance t= hen i conclude that you
did not series resonate the anten= na. The reactive component was
j1090 Ohm, so a series C o= f  177 nF (100+47+22 nF) would help to reduce the
fe= ed point impedance to 500 Ohm. Not sure if you could then run a higher
power but at least the PA losses would be a bit lower.

With some cheap 0.75mm2 CCA loudspeaker cabl= e you could reduce the wire
losses by about 90%.

All this is very nice promising!

Good luck and i hope to get a new chance to receive= you here soon.

73, Stefan


=


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