Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t4UMpc6q032655 for ; Sun, 31 May 2015 00:51:38 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1YypYf-0001Nt-Ay for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 23:48:49 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1YypYe-0001Ng-SQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 23:48:48 +0100 Received: from vms173019pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.19]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1YypYc-0002Ff-5l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 23:48:47 +0100 Received: from MichaelSappPC ([173.75.42.26]) by vms173019.mailsrvcs.net (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.32.0 64bit (built Jul 16 2014)) with ESMTPA id <0NP600D3ZQ0W1650@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 17:48:40 -0500 (CDT) X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=Lv5vsSpc c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=oKUm5Y82zOJV+M+GiW5KPw==:117 a=cWLe3gRRFjkA:10 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=oR5dmqMzAAAA:8 a=-9mUelKeXuEA:10 a=h1PgugrvaO0A:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=9iDbn-4jx3cA:10 a=cKsnjEOsciEA:10 a=gZbpxnkM3yUA:10 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=nGp8szjaAAAA:20 a=vvkGHyT2AAAA:20 a=Z4OZpw9PAAAA:20 a=1FM8wg4dAAAA:20 a=vbMf97rEoLID5zyC1XUA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=_6UEJtrqmdh5OBGFP0YA:9 a=erFrwrf8QpwZI736:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 Message-id: <153AB2FBECF349568F464CBB2937E16D@MichaelSappPC> From: "Michael Sapp" To: References: <5568E23F.5070907@posteo.de> <98550314F4E343FF8ACABAF3E7D5FC8B@MichaelSappPC> <6631D15870CA4874B8A428964C437E00@White> <1CE4CCC3376A4525A8C6F7ED165F3934@MichaelSappPC> <42B082B94058476DA1B49C80A0AA4DB9@White> In-reply-to: <42B082B94058476DA1B49C80A0AA4DB9@White> Date: Sat, 30 May 2015 18:48:26 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 X-Scan-Signature: 7fd152b460e4fe836d66f0293f680039 Subject: Re: re:Re: LF: Almost Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01D09B09.366BCDB0" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3371 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01D09B09.366BCDB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ahh, I will give that a try....Thank You Markus.... Mike ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 6:36 PM Subject: Re: re:Re: LF: Almost Hi Mike,=20 you won't need separate receivers and PCs just for observing WSPR at = both speeds. Frequency bands are adjacent and based on the same dial = frequency (475.2 kHz USB). All you need to do is run WSPR-X twice on the = same PC and same soundcard, and manually select different speed settings = in the two instances. It has been said that it may be to have two WSPR-X = installations in separate folders, but at least for me just starting the = same program twice seems to do the job nicely. 73, Markus From: Michael Sapp=20 Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 12:21 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: re:Re: LF: Almost Hello Markus: Ah, similar noise gremlins all over the globe.... = During spring cleaning of all the EWE connections last week, I added a = perimeter ground wire around the four ground rods of the two EWE = antennas (Think of a square area with an X inside, 10:1 matching xfmr = each end of each EWE). The extra grounding appeared to reduce the power = line harmonic situation in the 10~20 kHz range. It will take a few weeks = of listening to evaluate.... I can split my LF converter IF output and run two receivers and PCs. = But the IF radios, PCs, and sound cards are not identical which makes = comparative tests rather subjective. I have tried that twice in the = past week but no joy on 630m wspr2 & 15. May give that a try again this = evening if no "Blizten-storms"... 73, Mike wa3tts=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:56 PM Subject: Re: LF: Almost Hi Mike, thanks for the explanations, nice work indeed!=20 I am are also plagued by a lot of local interference from our dense = suburban neighbourhood. especially on MF there seems to be a surprising = diversity of signatures: there's the plain common SMPS hash, usually 100 = Hz FM-modulated across several kHz. At times I get what looks like just = plain white noise, with variable power density. But then there are also = apparently crystal controlled carriers going on and off, often with = sidebands which sometimes mimick intelligent modulation. Are you currently monitoring WSPR-2 only, or also -15? All the best, Markus (DF6NM) From: Michael Sapp=20 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 8:33 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Almost Markus: I do not think the QRM signals are spurious. I have built = the W1VD preselector for 475~500 kHz range and the offending signals are = still present when the preselector is used. Same with the FZ-02 filter. = There are some commercial and retail shops to my NE about 300~400 = meters away, possible that is the source. However, the offending QRM = signals are not consistent in frequency or strength from one day to the = next. QRM signals are not very strong, but strong enough to interfere = with a -27 to -30 SNR desired signal. =20 I use a pair of crossed EWE antennas to have four-way selectable = cardio patterns for NE, SW, SE, and NW directional reception. If I = switch to the NW direction, the QRM signals go away, but then = directivity to DK7FC would be about 4~5dB down. To the SW and SE = directions some QRM sources disappear, and other QRM sources appear. I = may try some phase steering between the two EWE antennas. It is an = ongoing learning process. Random chance could always prevail, so I = continue to listen, tinker, and occasionally even learn something ~:). = 73,=20 Mike wa3tts PS: I have received several F5WK wspr2 captures on 630m this last = December.... https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkfcl9gfyac5nlm/F5WKMAP.JPG?dl=3D0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fzox0bk492h20dq/IMG_4142.JPG?dl=3D0 ----- Original Message ----- a From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 6:20 AM Subject: Re: LF: Almost Looks like Stefan ran into a Loran line... but wait, Loran is no = longer there in North America, and anyway we're on MF not LF. Mike any = idea what is causing those spurs? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/hferguh5tdeaccw/IMG_4352.JPG = (direct link) 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Michael Sapp=20 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 4:41 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Almost Stefan: Close, but no cigar..... local QRM..... https://www.dropbox.com/s/hferguh5tdeaccw/IMG_4352.JPG?dl=3D0 73 Mike wa3tts ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01D09B09.366BCDB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ahh, I will give that a try....Thank = You=20 Markus....
 
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Markus=20 Vester
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 = 6:36=20 PM
Subject: Re: re:Re: LF: = Almost

Hi Mike,
 
you won't need separate receivers and = PCs just=20 for observing WSPR at both speeds. Frequency bands are adjacent and = based=20 on the same dial frequency (475.2 kHz USB). All you need to do is = run=20 WSPR-X twice on the same PC and same soundcard, and manually = select=20 different speed settings in the two instances. It has been said that = it may be=20 to have two WSPR-X installations in separate folders, but at least for = me just=20 starting the same program twice seems to do the job=20 nicely.
 
73, Markus
 
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 12:21 AM
Subject: re:Re: LF: Almost

Hello Markus:  Ah, similar noise = gremlins=20 all over the globe.... During spring cleaning of all the EWE = connections last=20 week, I added a perimeter ground wire around the four ground rods = of the=20 two EWE antennas (Think of a square area with an X inside, 10:1 = matching xfmr=20 each end of each EWE). The extra grounding appeared to = reduce the=20 power line harmonic situation in the 10~20 kHz range. It will take a = few weeks=20 of listening to evaluate....
 
I can split my LF converter IF output = and run two=20 receivers and PCs. But the IF radios, PCs, and sound cards are = not=20 identical which makes comparative = tests rather subjective. =20  I have tried that twice in the past week but no joy on 630m = wspr2 &=20 15.  May give that a try again this evening if no=20 "Blizten-storms"...
 
73, Mike wa3tts 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Markus=20 Vester
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 = 5:56=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Almost

Hi Mike,
 
thanks for the = explanations, nice work=20 indeed!
 
I am are also plagued by a lot = of local=20 interference from our dense suburban neighbourhood. especially on MF = there=20 seems to be a surprising diversity of signatures: there's=20 the plain common SMPS hash, usually 100 Hz=20 FM-modulated across several kHz. At times I=20 get what looks like just plain white noise, with = variable power=20 density. But then there are also apparently crystal = controlled=20 carriers going on and off, often with sidebands which sometimes = mimick intelligent modulation.
 
Are you = currently monitoring=20 WSPR-2 only, or also -15?
 
All the best,
Markus (DF6NM)
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Almost

Markus:  I do not think the = QRM signals=20 are spurious. I have built the W1VD preselector for 475~500 kHz = range and=20 the offending signals are still present when the preselector is = used. =20 Same with the FZ-02 filter.  There are some commercial and = retail shops=20 to my NE about 300~400 meters away, possible that is the = source. =20 However, the offending QRM signals are not consistent in frequency = or=20 strength from one day to the next.  QRM signals are not very = strong,=20 but strong enough to interfere with a -27 to -30 SNR desired=20 signal.  
 
  I use a pair of crossed EWE = antennas to=20 have four-way selectable cardio patterns for NE, SW, SE, and NW = directional=20 reception. If I switch to the NW direction, the QRM signals go away, = but=20 then directivity to DK7FC would be about 4~5dB down.  To the SW = and SE=20 directions some QRM sources disappear, and other QRM sources = appear.  I=20 may try some phase steering between the two EWE antennas. It is = an=20 ongoing learning process. Random chance could always prevail, so I = continue=20 to listen, tinker, and occasionally even learn something ~:). 73,=20
 
Mike wa3tts
 
PS: I have received several =  F5WK wspr2=20 captures on 630m this last December....
 
htt= ps://www.dropbox.com/s/wkfcl9gfyac5nlm/F5WKMAP.JPG?dl=3D0
ht= tps://www.dropbox.com/s/fzox0bk492h20dq/IMG_4142.JPG?dl=3D0
----- Original Message ----- = a
From:=20 Markus=20 Vester
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Saturday, May 30, = 2015 6:20=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: = Almost

Looks like Stefan ran = into a Loran=20 line... but wait, Loran is no longer there in North America, = and=20 anyway we're on MF not LF. Mike any idea what is causing those=20 spurs?
 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/hferguh5tdeaccw/IMG_4352.JPG&nbs= p;(direct=20 link)
 
73, Markus (DF6NM)

From: Michael Sapp
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 4:41 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: LF: Almost

Stefan: Close, but no cigar..... = local=20 QRM.....
 
ht= tps://www.dropbox.com/s/hferguh5tdeaccw/IMG_4352.JPG?dl=3D0
 
73 Mike wa3tts
 
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