Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dl03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2EA0838000092; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 07:09:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RzS2I-0006ix-8O for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:08:06 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RzS2H-0006io-7G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:08:05 +0000 Received: from smtpout3.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.59] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RzS2F-0002Si-1N for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:08:05 +0000 Received: from AGB ([2.26.22.98]) by mwinf5d44 with ME id cC7s1i00526ybSy03C7skZ; Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:07:57 +0100 Message-ID: <13EC3C28E1CD4516AD1A5506F7627099@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <002a01ccee25$c2416cd0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4F3F800B.2000201@xs4all.nl> <003e01ccee2d$49b17f50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <007f01ccee6c$3eca0f50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <6ADDBBA8CD0B4DC38D7950C75294B505@AGB> <004601cceee8$7566da80$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <2AB0A82B2A6F4A0ABCD855D8AB420777@lindavideo> <000f01cceef9$bbcbe130$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20939DDAB9A34C99BF9854521FFDF361@lindavideo> <000d01ccefb7$0195a620$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <000d01ccefb7$0195a620$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 12:07:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 120220-0, 20/02/2012), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP=0.234 Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01CCEFC8.451DA490" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:458375584:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4ad14f4237e92cbe X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CCEFC8.451DA490 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable .. If you tell them, the broad band seems to drop out quite = regularly, they may check the line and possibly do some = refurbishment works if its under the stated minimum , already told = you its noisy ... if they ask , just tell them your a 'Y' station = and the broadband is raising you noise floor ... G..=20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 10:04 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 Hi Ken Yes the filters are fitted. I know how the system works as you describe = it. Since the common denominator is the copper line I thought the RF = would effect both. My line is probably 3 miles to the telephone exchange = via various junction boxes etc and 30 plus years old. Not ideal and = never intended to carry high speed data. The engineer did say my line = was noisy. The whole country needs to be re-cabled with fibre optic cable now that = wideband data is here to stay and make life easy for the Appliance = Operator mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:26 PM Subject: RE: LF: opera 500 Hi Mal. The telephone portion is speech in the standard 300Hz - 3400Hz speech = band directly on the copper pairs, the DSL sits on top of this using the = DSLAM in the exchange, that is why you have a 'Micro Filter' at each = telephone outlet in the house, do you have a 'Micro Filter at each = telephone outlet? Regards. Ken M0KHW =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 19 February 2012 11:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Tnx Ken info No overhead lines around my QTH, all underground and there is no = problem with the telephone regardless of power on any band. Normally it is not a problem with CW, SSB, or QRSS it is just a = problem with Opera because of the data base feedback facility 73 de mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:05 AM Subject: RE: LF: opera 500 =20 Hi Mal. I had the same problem until I went Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC), if = you are on a long local line especially if it is overhead, the most = likely there will not be any DSL carriers above 500kHz, and what are = present will have a very poor S/N ratio. I fitted common mode chokes on = every piece of cable I could find and they made no difference, only a = few watts at 500kHz and the lower HF bands would cause the DSL router to = drop out and re-train up. I had my ex (pre-retirement) colleagues from = BT Adastral Park, conduct measurements on my local line, (2.8km in = length with 30m of drop wire) as part of a national survey, the line = without the common mode chokes had no DSL carriers above 500kHz with an = S/N less than 10dB, with a few watts of TX power with and without CMCs = the remaining carriers were degraded sufficiently to cause the router to = retrain. Another cause could be if you have drop wire there could be = corrosion on any external screw terminals causing 'Rectified Joints' = like the rusty bolt effect on radio masts, water getting into older = types of drop wire can cause corrosion on the plated steel conductors. Hope this helps. Ken ex-BT Adastral Parkl M0KHW =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 19 February 2012 09:26 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Graham I have some filtering and the phone is not effected only the data = stream taking some hits.=20 It could well be an earth loop problem, must investigate further. Its a long time since I have been in Walmsley/Liverpool. I used that = route frequently Liverpool/Belfast but these days its Cairnryan/Larne The mode is popular because it is easy to implement especially with = CW transmitters and C/D/E amplifiers.=20 73 de mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 R Mal =20 Yes I cam across this some time ago with the first broad = band router, I brought one by edimax , not supposed to be the = best , but had a metal case and a real fcc licence , that was = fine , till adsl2 , the net-gear modem supplied was 100% u/s with = any Rf on any band .... =20 I brought the the newer version of the edimax , its not as = Rf proof as the old adsl-1 version, but for some reason , only = takes a hit on 160/80 =20 =20 Not too much you can do , apart from the usual Rf chokes = , could try a radio card from the router to the PC , if that's = where the Rf is being picked up ..unplug everything , see if it = crashes with just the phone line connected ? but with just the = driver , sounds a bit like a earth link .. depends how you have the = station wired up , i am in the top front room of the house , so = no direct earth , that's out in the shed , where the tuners are = , but I need to bond everything together to stop cable pick = up.. =20 73 -G.. =20 =20 =20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:36 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Yes Graham This seems to be the problem although it recovers quickly but not = quick enough. It happens with very little RF being transmitted at the = driver chip stage without the PA switched on. de mal/g3kev =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:00 PM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Mal, =20 Are you sure the internet/broadband connection is not = being frozen by the TX . ?=20 =20 I have this problem on 160 and 80 for some reason , 10 = watts and the web traffic stops but oddly , no problem on the other bands ...so you can = miss the incoming spots .. check the psk map and you will see 'who' is decoding you = ..=20 =20 This is one of the reasons a server handling the ros & = opera s/n reports would be a good addition . but the problem = is finding some one or group who could construct such a piece of = software .. it can be located on the sever JR runs .... still = looking for offers on that ..=20 =20 73 -G.=20 =20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:05 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Tnx Albert But why am I not seeing this info on the right hand windiow. You = are S9 audible =20 mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Albert=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:40 AM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Op 18-2-2012 11:12, mal hamilton schreef:=20 mf Does anyone copy my op4 on 501.5 at present. No database = feedback from anyone=20 mal/g3kev =20 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0LCE Op4 495 km -9 dB in LAGE MIERDE = JO21NJ 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA3ABK Op4 443 km -3 dB in Dordrecht 10:16 500 G3KEV de G3ZJO Op4 229 km -26 dB in Northampton 10:16 500 G3KEV de ON6EO Op4 -4 dB in JO11LE 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0ONO Op4 421 km -13 dB in Rotterdam 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0A Op4 461 km -1 dB in Lucaswolde = JO33DE 10:15 500 G3ZJO de G3ZJO Op4 0 km +6 dB in Northampton with = .0002w + 5m inv L-rx mini whip ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CCEFC8.451DA490 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
.. If you tell  them, the   broad band  seems = to =20 drop  out  quite regularly,  they  may check = the =20 line  and  possibly do some  refurbishment works  if = its=20 under the  stated minimum , already  told you  its noisy=20 ...  if they ask , just tell  them your  a  = 'Y' =20 station  and  the  broadband is  raising you =20 noise  floor ...
 
G..

Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: LF: opera 500

Hi Ken
Yes the filters are fitted. I know how the = system works as=20 you describe it. Since the common denominator is the copper line I = thought=20 the RF would effect both. My line is probably 3 miles to the telephone = exchange=20 via various junction boxes etc and 30 plus years old. Not ideal and = never=20 intended to carry high speed data. The engineer did say my line was = noisy.
The whole country needs to be re-cabled with = fibre optic=20 cable now that wideband data is here to stay and make life easy for = the=20 Appliance Operator
 
 mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ken
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 = 7:26=20 PM
Subject: RE: LF: opera = 500

Hi=20 Mal.

The=20 telephone portion is speech in the standard 300Hz =96 3400Hz speech = band=20 directly on the copper pairs, the DSL sits on top of this using the = DSLAM in=20 the exchange, that is why you have a =91Micro Filter=92 at each = telephone outlet=20 in the house, do you have a =91Micro Filter at each telephone=20 outlet?

Regards.

Ken

M0KHW

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton
Sent: 19 February 2012 = 11:29
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: opera=20 500

 

Tnx = Ken=20 info

No = overhead=20 lines around my QTH, all underground and there is no problem with the=20 telephone regardless of power on any band.

Normally it is=20 not a problem with CW, SSB, or QRSS it is just a problem with Opera = because of=20 the data base feedback facility

73 de = mal/g3kev

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: Ken=20

Sent: = Sunday,=20 February 19, 2012 11:05 AM

Subject: = RE: LF:=20 opera 500

 

Hi=20 Mal.

I=20 had the same problem until I went Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC), if = you are on=20 a long local line especially if it is overhead, the most likely = there will=20 not be any DSL carriers above 500kHz, and what are present will have = a very=20 poor S/N ratio. I fitted common mode chokes on every piece of cable = I could=20 find and they made no difference, only a few watts at 500kHz and the = lower=20 HF bands would cause the DSL router to drop out and re-train up. I = had my ex=20 (pre-retirement) colleagues  from BT Adastral Park, conduct=20 measurements on my local line, (2.8km in length with 30m of drop = wire) as=20 part of a national survey, the line without the common mode chokes = had no=20 DSL carriers above 500kHz with an S/N less than 10dB, with a few = watts of TX=20 power with and without CMCs the remaining carriers were degraded=20 sufficiently to cause the router to retrain. Another cause could be = if you=20 have drop wire there could be corrosion on any external screw = terminals=20 causing =91Rectified Joints=92 like the rusty bolt effect on radio = masts, water=20 getting into older types of drop wire can cause corrosion on the = plated=20 steel conductors.

Hope=20 this helps.

Ken   =20 ex-BT Adastral Parkl

M0KHW

   

 

From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton
Sent: 19 February 2012=20 09:26
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: opera=20 500

 

Graham

I = have some=20 filtering and the phone is not effected only the data stream taking = some=20 hits.

It = could well=20 be an earth loop problem, must investigate=20 further.

Its = a long=20 time since I have been in Walmsley/Liverpool. I used that route = frequently=20 Liverpool/Belfast but these days its=20 Cairnryan/Larne

The = mode is=20 popular because it is easy to implement especially with CW = transmitters and=20 C/D/E amplifiers.

73 = de=20 mal/g3kev

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: = Graham=20

To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Sent: = Saturday,=20 February 18, 2012 9:02 PM

Subject: = Re: LF:=20 opera 500

 

R=20 Mal

 

Yes  I cam  = across  this  some  time ago  with the =20 first  broad  band  router,  I brought  = one =20 by  edimax , not  supposed to be the  best , = but  had=20 a metal  case  and  a  real   = fcc =20 licence , that  was fine , till adsl2  , the  = net-gear=20 modem supplied  was  100% u/s   with  = any =20 Rf  on any  band ....

 

I brought the  = the =20 newer version of the  edimax , its   not  = as  Rf proof as the  old adsl-1  version, but  = for  some  reason  , only  takes a  = hit  on=20 160/80  

 

Not  too  = much =20 you  can  do  , apart  from the =20  usual  Rf chokes , could  try  a  = radio =20 card  from the  router to the  PC , if that's = where =20 the  Rf is being  picked  up  = ..unplug  =20 everything  , see  if it  crashes  with  = just=20 the  phone  line  connected ? but  with just = the =20 driver , sounds a bit  like a earth  link .. depends = how =20 you  have the  station  wired up , i am  in = the =20 top  front  room of the  house , so  no =20 direct  earth  , that's  out  in the  = shed ,=20 where the  tuners  are ,  but  I need  = to =20 bond  everything  together to  stop  = cable  pick=20 up..

 

73=20 -G..

 

 

 

From: = mal hamilton=20

Sent: = Saturday,=20 February 18, 2012 6:36 PM

To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Subject: = Re: LF:=20 opera 500

 

Yes=20 Graham

This seems=20 to be the problem although it recovers quickly but not quick = enough. It=20 happens with very little RF being transmitted at the driver chip = stage=20 without the PA switched on.

de=20 mal/g3kev

 

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: Graham=20

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Sent:=20 Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:00 = PM

Subject: Re: LF:=20 opera 500

 

Mal,

 

Are  you  = sure=20 the  internet/broadband  connection  is not  = being  frozen  by the  TX . ?=20

 

I have this =20 problem  on 160 and  80  for  some  = reason , 10=20 watts  and the  web traffic=20 stops

but oddly , = no  problem=20 on the  other bands ...so  you  can  = miss =20 the  incoming  spots = ..

check  = the =20 psk  map and you  will  see  'who'  = is =20 decoding you ..

 

This  is  = one of=20 the  reasons  a  server handling the  =20 ros  & opera   s/n  reports  =20 would  be  a  good  addition  . but = the =20 problem  is  finding  some one or group =  who=20 could construct  such a  piece of  software .. it = can  be  located   on  the  = sever  JR=20 runs  ....  still  looking  for  = offers =20 on that  ..

 

73 -G.=20

 

From: mal=20 hamilton

Sent:=20 Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:05 = AM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Subject: Re: LF:=20 opera 500

 

Tnx=20 Albert

But why=20 am I not seeing this info on the right hand windiow. You are S9=20 audible

 

mal/g3kev

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: Albert=20

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Sent:=20 Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:40=20 AM

Subject: Re:=20 LF: opera 500

 

Op 18-2-2012 = 11:12, mal=20 hamilton schreef:=20

mf

Does=20 anyone copy my op4 on 501.5 at present. No database feedback = from=20 anyone

mal/g3kev

 

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de PA0LCE Op4 495 km -9 dB in LAGE MIERDE=20 JO21NJ

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de PA3ABK Op4 443 km -3 dB in Dordrecht

=

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de G3ZJO Op4 229 km -26 dB in Northampton

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de ON6EO Op4  -4 dB in=20 JO11LE

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de PA0ONO Op4 421 km -13 dB in Rotterdam

=

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de PA0A Op4 461 km -1 dB in Lucaswolde=20 JO33DE

10:15   =20 500 G3ZJO de G3ZJO Op4 0 km +6 dB in Northampton with .0002w + = 5m inv L-rx=20 mini=20 = whip

<= /BLOCKQUOTE>
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