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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 15:26:43 +0100 (BST)
From: M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAHAQVWNTZX0MpcQUZaoCM3sgvv3hSZ=LZf5zpxGUdRht0nZ26g@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: LF: Wellbrook RX loops
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Hi Roger=0A=A0=0AIn My Humble Opinion after spending a small fortune on one=
 of these "Frame Aerials" (I have not) nobody will give you a bad report. T=
hat outfit relies on "Black Magic" since=A0they will not publish their Sche=
matic.=0AI am glad Dave has given an honest appraisal of its performance. I=
t is about the same as any frame antenna. I have made frame antennas from a=
bout 3m to 1m currently in use down to 250mm. They are great for direction =
finding. They could be said to allow one to steer away from noise but if th=
e noise is between you and the desired station they are of no advantage.=A0=
=0A=A0=0AMake up a simple frame inductor and tune it with a capacitor and a=
mplify it there are plenty of schematics=A0 on the net.=0AAlso there is a t=
echnical treatise in the 1938 BR 230 Admiralty Handbook of Wireless Telegra=
phy Vol II Wireless Telegraphy Theory section T page 1. available from any =
good book shop!! But pirate copies from FMT press.=0A=0A73 es GL Pete M0FMT=
 IO91UX=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A> From: Roger Lapthorn =
<rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>=0A>To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_gr=
oup@blacksheep.org> =0A>Sent: Friday, 5 July 2013, 10:28=0A>Subject: Re: LF=
: Wellbrook RX loops=0A>  =0A>=0A>=0A>Dave,=0A>=0A>Thanks for that. Yes I c=
an see the potential issue: you transfer the overload issue from the active=
 antenna to the RX. A bandpass filter for each band is not hard though. Gue=
ss it is a question of whether the wideband/no tune approach is better/more=
 flexible, than a tuned loop.=0A>=0A>=0A>My current RX situation is not goo=
d on 136/472kHz and I am looking for a good solution on RX at the new QTH -=
 moving in August all of 300m further east!=0A>=0A>=0A>73s=0A>Roger G3XBM=
=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On 5 July 2013 08:27, DAVE PICK <daveyxm@virginmedia.c=
om> wrote:=0A>=0A>Roger=0A>>=0A>>I have used a Wellbrook for many years on =
136 and (now) on 472kHz. It performs well but it will put massive signals f=
rom broadcast stations into your RX! You may need a band-pass filter betwee=
n the loop and the receiver. Obviously it is directional.=0A>>It will be ar=
ound 10dB down on a proper aerial, but that's not a problem on LF.=0A>>=0A>=
>Dave G3YXM=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>On 5 July 2013 08:00, Roger Lapthorn <r=
ogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:=0A>>=0A>>Can anyone advise, from actual use,=
 =A0how well a Wellbrook loop works on 136 and 472kHz RX ? The excellent OI=
P2 and OIP3 figures and directivity suggest one could be very useful.=0A>>>=
=0A>>>73s=0A>>>Roger G3XBM=0A>>>=0A>> =0A>=0A>=0A>-- =0A>=0A>http://g3xbm-q=
rp.blogspot.com/=0A>http://www.g3xbm.co.uk/=0A>https://sites.google.com/sit=
e/sub9khz/=0A>http://qss2.blogspot.com/=0A>http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xb=
m=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>    
--131296447-491640447-1373034403=:49430
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div><span>Hi Roger</span></div>=
<div><span></span>&nbsp;</div><div><span>In My Humble Opinion after spendin=
g a small fortune on one of these "Frame Aerials" (I have not) nobody will =
give you a bad report. That outfit relies on "Black Magic" since&nbsp;they =
will not publish their Schematic.</span></div><div><span>I am glad Dave has=
 given an honest appraisal of its performance. It is about the same as any =
frame antenna. I have made frame antennas from about 3m to 1m currently in =
use down to 250mm. They are great for direction finding. They could be said=
 to allow one to steer away from noise but if the noise is between you and =
the desired station they are of no advantage.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span>=
</span>&nbsp;</div><div><span>Make up a simple frame inductor and tune it w=
ith a capacitor and amplify it there are plenty of schematics&nbsp; on
 the net.</span></div><div><span>Also there is a technical treatise in the =
1938 BR 23<var id=3D"yui-ie-cursor"></var>0 Admiralty Handbook of Wireless =
Telegraphy Vol II Wireless Telegraphy Theory section T page 1. available fr=
om any good book shop!! But pirate copies from FMT press.</span></div><div>=
<br></div><div>73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX<br> <blockquote style=3D"padding-=
left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16=
, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;">  <div style=3D"=
font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;"> <div style=3D=
"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <=
div dir=3D"ltr"> <div class=3D"hr" style=3D"margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; =
border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; font-siz=
e: 0px;" contenteditable=3D"false" readonly=3D"true"></div>  <font face=3D"=
Arial" size=3D"2"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> R=
oger Lapthorn
 &lt;rogerlapthorn@gmail.com&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">=
To:</span></b> "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" &lt;rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.=
org&gt; <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday,=
 5 July 2013, 10:28<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</spa=
n></b> Re: LF: Wellbrook RX loops<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_co=
ntainer"><br><div id=3D"yiv2493639803"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Dave=
,<br><br></div>Thanks for that. Yes I can see the potential issue: you tran=
sfer the overload issue from the active antenna to the RX. A bandpass filte=
r for each band is not hard though. Guess it is a question of whether the w=
ideband/no tune approach is better/more flexible, than a tuned loop.<br>=0A=
<br></div><div>My current RX situation is not good on 136/472kHz and I am l=
ooking for a good solution on RX at the new QTH - moving in August all of 3=
00m further east!<br></div><div><br></div>73s<br></div>Roger G3XBM<br></div=
>=0A<div class=3D"yiv2493639803gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"yiv249363=
9803gmail_quote">On 5 July 2013 08:27, DAVE PICK <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:daveyxm@virginmedia.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" y=
mailto=3D"mailto:daveyxm@virginmedia.com">daveyxm@virginmedia.com</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"yiv2493639803gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204,=
 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">=0A<div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div><div><div>Roger<br><br></div>I have used a Wellbrook for many years=
 on 136 and (now) on 472kHz. It performs well but it will put massive signa=
ls from broadcast stations into your RX! You may need a band-pass filter be=
tween the loop and the receiver. Obviously it is directional.<br>=0A=0A</di=
v>It will be around 10dB down on a proper aerial, but that's not a problem =
on LF.<br><br></div>Dave G3YXM<br></div><div class=3D"yiv2493639803HOEnZb">=
<div class=3D"yiv2493639803h5"><div class=3D"yiv2493639803gmail_extra"><br>=
<br><div class=3D"yiv2493639803gmail_quote">On 5 July 2013 08:00, Roger Lap=
thorn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com">r=
ogerlapthorn@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=0A=0A<blockquote class=3D"=
yiv2493639803gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left:=
 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border=
-left-style: solid;">Can anyone advise, from actual use, &nbsp;how well a W=
ellbrook loop works on 136 and 472kHz RX ? The excellent OIP2 and OIP3 figu=
res and directivity suggest one could be very useful.<br>=0A=0A=0A<br>=0A73=
s<br>=0ARoger G3XBM<br>=0A</blockquote></div><br></div>=0A</div></div></blo=
ckquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"=
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">http://g=
3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/</a><br><a href=3D"http://www.g3xbm.co.uk/" target=3D=
"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">http://www.g3xbm.co.uk/</a><br>=0A<a href=3D"http=
s://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">http=
s://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/</a><br><a href=3D"http://qss2.blogspot.c=
om/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">http://qss2.blogspot.com/</a><br><a=
 href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow">http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm</a><br>=0A<br></div>=0A</div></div><b=
r><br></div> </div> </div> </blockquote>  </div></div></body></html>
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