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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Roger and group Mal is right next stop the Shetlands, however.... I have come to the conclusion that yes a large capture antenna (Marconi etc) will out perform frame ants and active antennas for reception on MF. However a large capture antenna in a noisy location will pick up huge amounts of local noise as well which most likely will swamp the DX signal. So large is not necessarily beautiful when it comes to receiving in urban and not so urban areas, like in the country side where mains is distribution via arcing 11kV on over head lines like my site. Even in a small community like mine of three houses spaced out, with neighbours who are non techie types without PC or massive TVs you still can have a very high radio noise on receive. In fact local urban amateurs appear to have less noise than me and have much better MF reception (possibly owing to underground electrical services). I have actually gone out in my car (a well reported event) with my one metre square frame ant and set up near stations with good MF reception to prove that an Urban location need not be a barrier to fair if not down right excellent MF reception. Since most noise comes from your house or the immediate neighbours house the thing to do is mount an active antenna as high as possible in the quietest place on your 40ft square garden. Take the signal down via a well screened coax that is well earthed and fully screened right up to the RX input. The signal will be weak but the signal to noise ratio will be good and stand post mixer amplification without too much wanted signal to noise loss. I have tried a non active whip (2m 7/8th wave) up at 45/50ft the 50 ohm coax straight into the 50ohm rx input (huge mismatch) but the coax screen is continuous right up the the RX input. Again the received signals are weak but the signal to noise is very good. It is about minus one dB down on the inverted L (up 40ft x 128ft lg) when the inverted L is actually usable for RX i.e. no noise about which does happen. In recent WRSP (wait while I wash my mouth out) [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [77.238.189.61 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (m0fmt[at]yahoo.co.uk) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: e2b7e65dcf7cf6551ab81105a525fe0f Subject: Re: LF: Re: POOR ANTENNAS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="131296447-1716655820-1361213602=:76992" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONT_BIG, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60c9512278fe4a22 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --131296447-1716655820-1361213602=:76992 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger and group=0A=A0=0AMal is right next stop the Shetlands, however....= =0A=A0=0AI have come to the conclusion that yes a large capture antenna (Ma= rconi etc)=A0will out perform frame ants and active antennas for reception = on MF.=0AHowever a large capture antenna in a noisy location will pick up h= uge amounts of local noise as well which most likely will swamp the DX sign= al. So large=A0is not necessarily beautiful when it comes to receiving in u= rban and not so urban areas, like in the country side where mains is distri= bution via arcing 11kV on over head lines like my site.=0A=A0=0AEven in a s= mall community like mine of three houses spaced out,=A0with neighbours who = are non techie types without PC or massive TVs you still can have a very hi= gh radio noise on receive. In fact local urban amateurs appear to have less= noise than me and have much better MF reception (possibly owing to undergr= ound electrical services). I have=A0actually gone out in my car (a well rep= orted event) with my one metre square frame ant and set up near stations wi= th good MF reception to=A0prove that an Urban location need not be a barrie= r to fair if not down right excellent MF reception.=0A=A0=0ASince most nois= e comes from your house or the immediate neighbours house the thing to do i= s mount an active antenna as high as possible in the quietest place on your= 40ft square garden. Take the signal down via a well screened coax that is = well earthed and fully screened right up to the RX input. The signal will b= e weak but the signal to noise ratio will be good and stand post mixer ampl= ification without too much wanted signal to noise=A0loss.=0A=A0=0AI have tr= ied a non active whip (2m 7/8th wave) up at 45/50ft the 50 ohm coax straigh= t into the 50ohm rx input (huge mismatch) but the coax screen is continuous= right up the the RX input. Again the received signals are weak but the sig= nal to noise is very good. It is about minus one dB down on the inverted L = (up 40ft x 128ft lg) when the inverted L is actually usable for RX=A0i.e. n= o noise about which does happen.=0A=A0=0AIn recent WRSP (wait while I wash = my mouth out) RX tests the SNR was comparable with stations who purport to = have a superior Rx facility=A0on MF. =0A=A0=0AThere is more I could add=A0c= oncerning terrain, take off and sea paths but not yet fully formulated=A0my= views on this.=0A=A0=0AI don't know if this has added anything useful but = noise picked up from local sources is the issue on MF IMHO. Gain via noisy = amps doesn't help.=0A=0A=0A73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX=0A=0A=0A>____________= ____________________=0A> From: Roger Lapthorn =0A>= To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" =0A>Sent:= Monday, 18 February 2013, 17:25=0A>Subject: Re: LF: Re: POOR ANTENNAS=0A> = =0A>=0A>Quite so Graham. =0A>=0A>Many are plagued by unbelievable noise le= vels these days. It would be too much to expect Mal to try to empathise and= suggest helpful ways of mitigating this. =0A>=0A>=0A>I just wonder how Mal= would fare living in an urban semi with a 40 foot garden like mine? =0A>= =0A>=0A>73s=0A>Roger G3XBM=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On 18 February 2013 17:01, Gr= aham wrote:=0A>=0A> =0A>>May be , may be not=A0 M= al =0A>>=0A>>The system is=A0 reading=A0 the=A0 s/n=A0=A0 at the=A0 =0ARx= =A0=A0 and=A0 not the=A0=A0 field=A0 strength ........=A0 =0Adepends on the= =A0 local=A0 noise level ,=A0=A0 rst=A0=A0 =0A159=A0 or =A0599=A0 , carrier= =A0 still=A0 S9=A0 ,=A0=A0 =0A1=3D qrm=A0=A0=A0=A0 5=3D no=A0 qrm =0A>> =0A= >>From: mal hamilton =0A>>Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:49 PM =0A>>To:= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A>>Subject: LF: Re: POOR ANTENNAS=0A>>=0A>= > =0A>>Example =0A>>I am receiving PA3EGO + 2dB another UK stn is showing -= 22 =0Aat a shorter distance. A difference of 24 dB =0A>>and this station sa= ys he is an Expert!! =0A>>=A0 =0A>>=A0 =0A>>----- Original Message ----- = =0A>>>From: mal hamilton =0A>>>To: rsgb =0A>>>Sent: Monday, February 18,= 2013 4:42 PM =0A>>>Subject: LF: POOR ANTENNAS =0A>>>=0A>>> =0A>>>MF =0A>>= >One thing the wspr=A0DB shows is how poor some Receivers/Antennas are com= paring like with like approximately same distances from Transmitter. =0A>= >>=A0 =0A>>>g3kev =0A>>> =0A>=0A>=0A>-- =0A>=0A>http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.c= om/=0A>http://www.g3xbm.co.uk/=0A>https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/=0A= >http://qss2.blogspot.com/=0A>http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm=0A>=0A> = =0A>=0A>=A0 --131296447-1716655820-1361213602=:76992 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roger and group
 
<= div>Mal is right next stop the Shetlands, however....
 
I have come to= the conclusion that yes a large capture antenna (Marconi etc) will ou= t perform frame ants and active antennas for reception on MF.
However a large capture antenna in a noisy location will pick up huge amounts of loc= al noise as well which most likely will swamp the DX signal. So large is not necessarily beautiful = when it comes to receiving in urban and not so urban areas, like in the cou= ntry side where mains is distribution via arcing 11kV on over head lines like my=0A site.
 
Even in a sma= ll community like mine of three houses spaced out, with neighbours who= are non techie types without P= C or massive TVs you still can have a very high radio noise on receive. In fact local urban amateurs appea= r to have less noise than me and have much better MF reception (possibly owing to underground electrical= services). I have actually gone out in my car (a well reported event)= with my one metre square frame ant and set up near stations with good MF reception to prove that a= n Urban location need not be a barrier to fair if not down right excellent = MF reception.
 
Since most noise comes from your house = or the immediate=0A neighbours house the thing to do is mount an active ant= enna as high as possible in the quietest place on your 40ft square gard= en. Take the signal down via a well screened coax that is well earthed and = fully screened right up to the RX input. The signal will be weak but the si= gnal to noise ratio will be good and stand post mixer amplification without= too much wanted signal to noise loss.
 
I have = tried a non active whip (2m 7/8th wave) up at 45/50ft the 50 ohm coax straight into the 50ohm rx input (huge mismatch) but the coax screen is continuous right up the the RX input. Again the received si= gnals are weak but the signal to noise is very good. It is about minus one = dB down on the inverted L (up 40ft x 128ft lg) when the=0A inverted L is ac= tually usable for RX i.e. no noise about which does happen.
 =
In recent WRSP (wait while I wash my mouth out) RX tests the SNR was comparable with stations who purport to have a super= ior Rx facility on MF. =
 
There is more I could= add concerning terrain, = take off and sea paths but not yet fully fo= rmulated my views on this.
 
I don't know if this has added anything useful but noise picked up from loc= al sources is the issue on MF IMHO. Gain via noisy amps doesn't help.

73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= " <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Monday, 18 February 2013, 17:25
Subject: Re: LF: Re: POOR ANTENNAS
<= /font>

= Quite so Graham.=0A

Many are plagued by unbelievable noise le= vels these days. It would be too much to expect Mal to try to empathise and= suggest helpful ways of mitigating this.
=0A
I just wond= er how Mal would fare living in an urban semi with a 40 foot garden like mi= ne?

73s
Roger G3XBM
<= br>
=0AOn 18 February 2013 17:01,= Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A
May be , may be not&nbs= p; Mal
=0A
 
=0A
The system is  reading  t= he  s/n   at the  =0ARx   and  not the&n= bsp;  field  strength ........  =0Adepends on the  loca= l  noise level ,   r= st   =0A159  or  599  , carrier  still=   S9  ,   =0A1=3D qrm     5=3D no  qrm
=0A
=0A
=0A
Fro= m: mal hamilton
=0A
Sent: Monday= , February 18, 2013 4:49 PM
=0A=0A
Subject: LF: Re: POOR= ANTENNAS
=0A

<= /div>=0A
Example
=0A
I am receiving PA3EGO + 2dB another UK stn is showing -22 =0Aat a shorter distance. A differenc= e of 24 dB
=0A
and this station says h= e is an Expert!!
=0A
 =0A
 
=0A
=0A
----= - Original Message -----
=0A
From: =0A mal =0A = hamilton
=0A
= To: rsgb
=0A
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:42 =0A PM=0A
Subject: LF: POOR= ANTENNAS
=0A

=0A
MF
=0A
One thing the wspr DB shows is how poor some =0A Receivers/Antennas are comparing like= with like approximately same distances =0A from Transmitter. =0A
 
=0A
g3kev
=0A=
 
=0A


--
=0A
=0A


 
--131296447-1716655820-1361213602=:76992--