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Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 08:20:27 +0000 (UTC)
From: Chris Osborn <g3xiz@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Message-ID: <1342217774.3243243.1460190027604.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A444EBCA7@ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be>
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Dear Rik,
Many thanks again for the most useful explanation.
Some of my past career was spent in an electrical calibration lab. so I can=
not get used to the scatter of readings I get with field strength measureme=
nts - HI !My calculated value of 0.38 watts ERP was obviously an average of=
several readings and theyranged from about 0.25 - 0.5W
Your deduction of my aerial current is interesting.My system comrises the T=
X, a step down (voltage) transformer, variometer and aerial.The whole syste=
m is tuned by means of a 'scopematch' unit and with 56W output the aerial c=
urrent, allowing for the step up current transformation is 1.8A
My next step (once it stops raining) will be to take some measurements on h=
igher ground as suggested.
Ian G4GIR (Bedford) and I have been doing some comparison tests on MF.Using=
the G3YXM grabber we transmit simultaneously using the same RF power and t=
hen compare signals on the grabber's graphic display.Results for the two of=
us are similar and with outputs of 56W we indicate at the -60 dB level.
Once we get an accurate measurement of our EIRP we could use that grabber a=
s a calibrated monitor.
73Chris G3XIZ
=20
On Friday, 8 April 2016, 11:30, Rik Strobbe <rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.b=
e> wrote:
=20
#yiv7096683814 P {MARGIN-TOP:0px;MARGIN-BOTTOM:0px;}Hello=C2=A0Chris,=C2=
=A0a=C2=A0lazy-L of=C2=A09m=C2=A0by=C2=A040m=C2=A0should have a=C2=A0radiat=
ion=C2=A0resistance (Rrad) of +/- 0.25 Ohm.If=C2=A0you=C2=A0know the antenn=
a=C2=A0current (I)=C2=A0you=C2=A0can=C2=A0calculated the=C2=A0EIRP =3D G*I^=
2*Rrad=C2=A0where G =3D the antenna=C2=A0gain (referred to=C2=A0an=C2=A0iso=
tropic antenna).The=C2=A0theoretical=C2=A0gain of a short=C2=A0vertical=C2=
=A0monopole is 3 (4.77dBi),=C2=A0but=C2=A0this=C2=A0assumes a perfect=C2=A0=
ground and=C2=A0no obstructions. A non perfect=C2=A0ground=C2=A0will affect=
the antenna=C2=A0pattern and gain.Whereas=C2=A0the max.=C2=A0takeoff=C2=A0=
angle over perfect=C2=A0ground is 0=C2=B0=C2=A0it=C2=A0will=C2=A0rise over =
non perfect ground. In=C2=A0addition the=C2=A0gain=C2=A0will=C2=A0slightly =
drop.I=C2=A0simulated=C2=A0your antenna=C2=A0using Mmanagal:Over perfect=C2=
=A0ground the max.=C2=A0takeoff=C2=A0angle is 0=C2=B0 and the antenna=C2=A0=
gain is 4.7dBi.With=C2=A0a "real ground" of 20mS/m and=C2=A0Er=3D 5 the max=
.=C2=A0takeoff=C2=A0angle=C2=A0rises=C2=A017=C2=B0 and the antenna=C2=A0gai=
n drops to=C2=A04.2dBi (at 17=C2=B0). At a=C2=A0low=C2=A0angle of 1=C2=B0 t=
he=C2=A0gain has=C2=A0dropped to -4.3dBi,=C2=A0thus=C2=A08.5dB=C2=A0below t=
he max. gain.The=C2=A0fact=C2=A0that maximum=C2=A0gain is=C2=A0not at 0=C2=
=B0=C2=A0takeoff=C2=A0makes is=C2=A0difficult to=C2=A0measure E(I)RP at=C2=
=A0ground level (cfr.=C2=A0Alans=C2=A0suggestion to go=C2=A0for=C2=A0higher=
grounds,=C2=A0if possible).=C2=A0Just out of=C2=A0curiosity a=C2=A0predict=
ion of the antenna=C2=A0current=C2=A0based=C2=A0on the=C2=A0numbers above:=
=C2=A0with=C2=A0an=C2=A0ERP of=C2=A00.38W (=3D=C2=A0EIRP of 0.62W) and a=C2=
=A0gain of=C2=A04.2dBi the antenna=C2=A0current=C2=A0should=C2=A0be close t=
o 1A,=C2=A0assuming a=C2=A0takeoff=C2=A0angle of 0=C2=B0.=C2=A0Now=C2=A0tak=
ing=C2=A0into account a=C2=A08.5dB low reading (due to the=C2=A0higher=C2=
=A0takeoff angle) the=C2=A0real antenna=C2=A0current=C2=A0should=C2=A0be 2.=
6 A.=C2=A073,=C2=A0Rik=C2=A0=C2=A0ON7YD - OR7T=C2=A0Van: owner-rsgb_lf_grou=
p@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Chris Osborn [=
g3xiz@yahoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: vrijdag 8 april 2016 11:36
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: RE: Field Strength Measurements
Many thanks for the rapid replies gentlemen; they are very much appreciated=
.
Rik, thanks for the explanation of the two formulae and I've inserted that =
ERP formula into my spreadsheet now - excellent !
Alan, I take measurements in open fields to the south of Biggleswade and at=
about 1 - 1.5 km distance from the transmitter.Noted about the advantages =
of higher ground measurement but we're fairly flat around here - HI !I'll l=
ook at the O/S map and see what I can do.
Transmitting 56 watts my ERP was calculated as being 0.38 watts which just =
seemed rather low.My aerial is a 40 m long inverted 'L' at 9m mean height w=
ith a reasonable ground system.
Making measurments of G4GIR's transmissions with his 260 watts at 16 km ret=
urned a value of 0.88 watts ERP
73Chris G3XIZ
On Friday, 8 April 2016, 0:24, Alan Melia <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote=
:
#yiv7096683814 P {MARGIN-TOP:0px;MARGIN-BOTTOM:0px;}Chris two other points1=
.=C2=A0 How far from the aerial are you taking the measurement .....you nee=
d to be at least 300 to 500 metres away2=C2=A0=C2=A0 Because of ground loss=
problems even the best (fully in the clear)=C2=A0amateur short aerials mea=
sure around 5 to 6 dB low.(that is a 136kHz observation.) Often a better re=
ading is taken say a mile away on slightly elevated ground to the aerial si=
te. Jim Moritz did tests in a field adjacent to the Puckeridge Decca mast, =
with a 10m high inverted L.=C2=A0AlanG3NYK=C2=A0=C2=A0
----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Strobbe To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep=
.org Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 11:24 PMSubject: LF: RE: Field Strength=
Measurements
Hello Chris,=C2=A0(1) will give you the EMRP (Effective Monopole Radiated P=
ower)(2) will give you the EIRP (Effective Isotropic Radiated Power)The for=
mula P =3D 0.0203252(Ed)^2 will give you the ERP (Effective Radiated Power)=
=C2=A073, Rik=C2=A0 ON7YD - OR7T=C2=A0Van:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or=
g [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Chris Osborn [g3xiz@yahoo.co.=
uk]
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 23:58
Aan: LF Group
Onderwerp: LF: Field Strength Measurements
LF,=20
I've recently resurrected my old RF field strength meter as designed by PA0=
SE and published in the LF Experimenters' Handbook.I've modifed it to measu=
re signals in the MF band and have calibrated it with a home made Helmholtz=
coil arrangement.
This question may have been raised before but PA0SE gives the formula for d=
eriving the transmitter power as
P =3D 0.0111 (Ed)^2=C2=A0 . . .=C2=A0=C2=A0 (1)
where E is the electrical field strength and d the distance
I've read in other places that the power from an isotropic radiator is
P =3D (Ed)^2 / 30=20
i.e.=C2=A0 0.0333 (Ed)^2=C2=A0 . . . . (2)
My calculated radiated power seems rather low so I'm wondering whether I sh=
ould be using formula (2)
Any clarification would be most welcome.
73Chris G3XIZ
------=_Part_3243242_762761116.1460190027579
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head></head><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; f=
ont-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, =
Sans-Serif;font-size:13px"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_14428=
">Dear Rik,</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_10090"><br></di=
v><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_10092">Many thanks again for t=
he most useful explanation.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483=
_14000"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_10094">Some of=
my past career was spent in an electrical calibration lab. so I cannot get=
used to the scatter of readings I get with field strength measurements - H=
I !</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_10730">My calculated va=
lue of 0.38 watts ERP was obviously an average of several readings and they=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_10948">ranged =
from about 0.25 - 0.5W</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_1116=
1" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_11376" =
dir=3D"ltr">Your deduction of my aerial current is interesting.</div><div i=
d=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_11810" dir=3D"ltr">My system comrises =
the TX, a step down (voltage) transformer, variometer and aerial.</div><div=
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_13316" dir=3D"ltr">The whole system =
is tuned by means of a 'scopematch' unit and with 56W output the aerial cur=
rent, allowing for the step up current transformation is 1.8A</div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_13332" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D=
"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_13552" dir=3D"ltr">My next step (once it s=
tops raining) will be to take some measurements on higher ground as suggest=
ed.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_15077" dir=3D"ltr"><br>=
</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_15978" dir=3D"ltr">Ian G4G=
IR (Bedford) and I have been doing some comparison tests on MF.</div><div i=
d=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_15980" dir=3D"ltr">Using the G3YXM gra=
bber we transmit simultaneously using the same RF power and then compare si=
gnals on the grabber's graphic display.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1=
460187099483_16647" dir=3D"ltr">Results for the two of us are similar and w=
ith outputs of 56W we indicate at the -60 dB level.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_1=
6_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_18220" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0=
_ym19_1_1460187099483_18901" dir=3D"ltr">Once we get an accurate measuremen=
t of our EIRP we could use that grabber as a calibrated monitor.</div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_19132" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_19579" dir=3D"ltr">73</div><div id=3D"y=
ui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_19581" dir=3D"ltr">Chris G3XIZ<br></div><div=
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_13771" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_13774" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D=
"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460187099483_10729"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym1=
9_1_1460187099483_13325"><span></span></div> <div class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><=
br><br></div><div style=3D"display: block;" class=3D"yahoo_quoted"> <div st=
yle=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida=
Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 13px;"> <div style=3D"font-family: Helvetic=
aNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-si=
ze: 16px;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> On Friday, 8 =
April 2016, 11:30, Rik Strobbe <rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:<b=
r></font></div> <br><br> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv7096=
683814"><style>#yiv7096683814 P {
MARGIN-TOP:0px;MARGIN-BOTTOM:0px;}
</style><div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;DIRECTION:ltr;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt=
;">
<div><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>Hello Chris,</di=
v>
<div> </div>
<div>a lazy-L<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> of =
;9m<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nof=
ollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>=
by<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> 40m<a href=
=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" sha=
pe=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> shou=
ld<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> have a radiation<a=
href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> resistance<a href=3D""=
rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>
(Rrad<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"=
nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"><=
/a>) of +/- 0.25 Ohm.</div>
<div><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>If you<a href=3D=
"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> know<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" shape=3D"rect"></a> the antenna current<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollo=
w" shape=3D"rect"></a> (I) you<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"r=
ect"></a> can<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> ca=
lculated<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> the EIRP<a h=
ref=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" =
shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>
=3D G*I^2<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>*Rrad<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D""=
rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> where<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollo=
w" shape=3D"rect"></a> G =3D the antenna gain<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofol=
low" shape=3D"rect"></a> (referred<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"re=
ct"></a> to an<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> i=
sotropic<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>
antenna).</div>
<div>The theoretical<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>&=
nbsp;gain<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> of a short =
vertical<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> monopole<a h=
ref=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> is 3 (4.77dBi<a href=3D"" rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rec=
t"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>), but<a href=
=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> this<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nof=
ollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> assumes<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect"></a>
a perfect ground<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> and=
no<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> obstructions<a hr=
ef=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>. A non perfect ground<a h=
ref=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> will<a href=3D"" rel=3D"=
nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> affect the antenna pattern<a href=3D"" r=
el=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> and gain<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" s=
hape=3D"rect"></a>.</div>
<div><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>Whereas the max.=
takeoff<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> angle<a=
href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> over perfect ground<a =
href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> is 0=C2=B0 it<a href=3D=
"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> will<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" shape=3D"rect"></a> rise<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rec=
t"></a> over non perfect ground<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"=
></a>.
In addition<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> the =
;gain<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> will<a href=3D"=
" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> slightly<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nof=
ollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> drop.</div>
<div>I simulated<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> =
;your<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> antenna using<a=
href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> Mmanagal<a href=3D"" rel=3D=
"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">=
</a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>:</div>
<div>Over perfect ground<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"><=
/a> the max. takeoff<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>&=
nbsp;angle<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> is 0=C2=B0 and =
the antenna gain<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> is 4=
.7dBi<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"n=
ofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></=
a>.</div>
<div><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>With a "real<a h=
ref=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> ground<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nof=
ollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>" of 20mS<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"r=
ect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>/m and Er<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow=
" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>=3D 5=
the max. takeoff<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>&nbs=
p;angle<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> rises<a href=
=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> 17=C2=B0
and the antenna gain<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>=
drops to 4.2dBi<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a hr=
ef=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" s=
hape=3D"rect"></a> (at 17=C2=B0). At a low angle<a href=3D"" rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> of 1=C2=B0 the gain<a href=3D"" rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> has dropped<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofol=
low" shape=3D"rect"></a> to -4.3dBi<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"r=
ect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>, thus<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" s=
hape=3D"rect"></a> 8.5dB<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"><=
/a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nof=
ollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> below<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D=
"rect"></a>
the max. gain<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>.</div>
<div>The fact<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> th=
at<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> maximum gain<a hre=
f=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> is not<a href=3D"" rel=3D"=
nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> at 0=C2=B0 takeoff<a href=3D"" rel=3D"no=
follow" shape=3D"rect"></a> makes<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect"></a> is difficult<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect=
"></a> to measure<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>
E(I)RP<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> at ground<a h=
ref=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> level (cfr<a href=3D"" rel=3D=
"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">=
</a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>. Alans<a href=3D=
"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> sugges=
tion<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> to
go for<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> higher<a=
href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> grounds<a href=3D"" rel=3D"=
nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>, if<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect"></a> possible<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>).<=
/div>
<div> </div>
<div>Just out of curiosity<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"=
></a> a prediction<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a =
href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> of the antenna current<=
a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> based<a href=3D"" rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> on<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shap=
e=3D"rect"></a> the numbers<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect=
"></a> above<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>: with<a =
href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> an<a href=3D"" rel=3D"n=
ofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> ERP<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D=
"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>
of 0.38W<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D""=
rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D=
"rect"></a> (=3D EIRP<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>=
<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" shape=3D"rect"></a> of 0.62W<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect=
"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"=
nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>) and a gain<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow"=
shape=3D"rect"></a>
of 4.2dBi<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"=
" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect"></a> the antenna current<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect"></a> should<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>=
be<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> close to 1A<a hre=
f=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" sh=
ape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>, as=
suming<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>
a takeoff<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> angle=
<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> of 0=C2=B0. Now<a hr=
ef=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> taking<a href=3D"" rel=3D=
"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> into<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect"></a> account a 8.5dB<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"r=
ect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> low reading (due<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofol=
low" shape=3D"rect"></a>
to the higher<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> t=
akeoff<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> angle<a href=3D"" r=
el=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a>) the real<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofol=
low" shape=3D"rect"></a> antenna current<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" =
shape=3D"rect"></a> should<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"=
></a> be<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> 2.6 A.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>73, Rik<a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=
=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> ON7YD<a href=3D"" rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rec=
t"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a> - OR7T<a href=3D""=
rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D=
"rect"></a><a href=3D"" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"></a></div>
<div> </div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div class=3D"yiv7096683814yqt6701264016" id=3D"yiv7096683814yqt45992"><div=
id=3D"yiv7096683814divRpF346667" style=3D"DIRECTION:ltr;"><font face=3D"Ta=
homa" color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2"><b>Van:</b> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe=
ep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Chris Osborn [g3xiz@yaho=
o.co.uk]<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Verzonden:</b> vrijdag 8 april 2016 11:36<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Aan:</b> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: LF: Re: RE: Field Strength Measurements<br clear=3D"n=
one">
</font><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Ne=
ue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;COLOR:#000;FONT-SIZE:13px;"=
>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3189">Many thanks f=
or the rapid replies gentlemen; they are very much appreciated.</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3195"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3112">R=
ik, thanks for the explanation of the two formulae and I've inserted that E=
RP formula into my spreadsheet now - excellent !</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3254"><=
br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3113">A=
lan, I take measurements in open fields to the south of Biggleswade and at =
about 1 - 1.5 km distance from the transmitter.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3114">N=
oted about the advantages of higher ground measurement but we're fairly fla=
t around here - HI !</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3166">I=
'll look at the O/S map and see what I can do.<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3342"><=
br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3348">T=
ransmitting 56 watts my ERP was calculated as being 0.38 watts which just s=
eemed rather low.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3445">M=
y aerial is a 40 m long inverted 'L' at 9m mean height with a reasonable gr=
ound system.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_4263"><=
br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_4301">M=
aking measurments of G4GIR's transmissions with his 260 watts at 16 km retu=
rned a value of 0.88 watts ERP<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3913"><=
br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_4015">7=
3</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_4016">C=
hris G3XIZ<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3497"><=
br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_3499"><=
br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460107047080_2880"><span></span>=
</div>
<div class=3D"yiv7096683814qtdSeparateBR"><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div class=3D"yiv7096683814yahoo_quoted" style=3D"DISPLAY:block;">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, =
Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;FONT-SIZE:13px;">
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, =
Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;FONT-SIZE:16px;">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">On Friday, 8 April 2016, 0=
:24, Alan Melia <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"yiv7096683814y_msg_container">
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814"><style>#yiv7096683814 P {
MARGIN-TOP:0px;MARGIN-BOTTOM:0px;}
</style>
<div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Chris two other points</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">1. How far from the aerial are y=
ou taking the measurement .....you need to be at least 300 to 500 metres aw=
ay</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">2 Because of ground loss p=
roblems even the best (fully in the clear) amateur short aerials measu=
re around 5 to 6 dB low.(that is a 136kHz observation.) Often a better read=
ing is taken say a mile away on slightly elevated ground
to the aerial site. Jim Moritz did tests in a field adjacent to the Pucker=
idge Decca mast, with a 10m high inverted L.
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font> </div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Alan</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">G3NYK</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font> </div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font> </div>
<div class=3D"yiv7096683814yqt9750473118" id=3D"yiv7096683814yqt94986">
<blockquote dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT=
:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;">
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;"><b>From:</b> <a rel=3D"n=
ofollow" shape=3D"rect" title=3D"rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be" ymailto=3D"ma=
ilto:rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:rik.stro=
bbe@fys.kuleuven.be">
Rik Strobbe</a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rec=
t" title=3D"rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" ymailto=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@b=
lacksheep.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or=
g">
rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 07, 2016 11:24=
PM</div>
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> LF: RE: Field Strength Meas=
urements</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;DIRECTION:ltr;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt=
;">
<div>Hello Chris,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>(1) will give you the EMRP (Effective Monopole Radiated Power)</div>
<div>(2) will give you the EIRP (Effective Isotropic Radiated Power)</div>
<div>The formula P =3D 0.0203252(Ed)^2 will give you the ERP (Effective Rad=
iated Power)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T</div>
<div> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:Times New Roman;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:16px;">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814divRpF263965" style=3D"DIRECTION:ltr;"><font face=
=3D"Tahoma" color=3D"#000000" size=3D"2"><b>Van:</b>
<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl=
acksheep.org" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe=
ep.org">
owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</a> [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]=
namens Chris Osborn [g3xiz@yahoo.co.uk]<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Verzonden:</b> donderdag 7 april 2016 23:58<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Aan:</b> LF Group<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Onderwerp:</b> LF: Field Strength Measurements<br clear=3D"none">
</font><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Ne=
ue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;COLOR:#000;FONT-SIZE:13px;"=
>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2659">LF, <br clear=
=3D"none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2667"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2688">I've recently=
resurrected my old RF field strength meter as designed by PA0SE and publis=
hed in the LF Experimenters' Handbook.</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2735">I've modifed =
it to measure signals in the MF band and have calibrated it with a home mad=
e Helmholtz coil arrangement.</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2765"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2786">This question=
may have been raised before but PA0SE gives the formula for deriving the t=
ransmitter power as</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2795"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2804">P =3D 0.0111 =
(Ed)^2 . . . (1)<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2853"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2862">where E is th=
e electrical field strength and d the distance</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2883"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2909">I've read in =
other places that the power from an isotropic radiator is</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2910"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2911">P =3D (Ed)^2 =
/ 30 <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3172"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3174">i.e. 0.=
0333 (Ed)^2 . . . . (2)</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3007"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3058">My calculated=
radiated power seems rather low so I'm wondering whether I should be using=
formula (2)</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3138"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3151">Any clarifica=
tion would be most welcome.</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3196"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3197">73</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3207">Chris G3XIZ<b=
r clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3152"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3288"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3293"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3075"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3334"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_2996"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
<div id=3D"yiv7096683814yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1460064690028_3060"><br clear=3D"=
none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div>
</div>
</div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>
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