Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dl06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2DCC4380000A0; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 17:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1QWb84-0006O5-PO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 22:26:32 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1QWb83-0006Nw-Rt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 22:26:31 +0100 Received: from impaqm2.telefonica.net ([213.4.138.18] helo=telefonica.net) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1QWb80-0006D4-NI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 22:26:31 +0100 Received: from IMPmailhost2.adm.correo ([10.20.102.39]) by IMPaqm2.telefonica.net with bizsmtp id vx9t1g01C0r0BT63MxSBx5; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:26:11 +0200 Received: from a8b21ba06852476 ([80.39.130.120]) by IMPmailhost2.adm.correo with BIZ IMP id vxS91g00F2c09uQ1ixSADo; Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:26:11 +0200 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-original-sender: jpradoes@telefonica.net Message-ID: <11891ECF261E4CD8AFD5EDD8F68DF13F@a8b21ba06852476> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?jos=E9_manuel?= To: References: <15528.29cd1840.3b267cd9@aol.com> <4DF52F44.80500@talktalk.net> <4DF53655.40001@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <8024ACF0F5734035BFE8E7BBDDF47EA8@a8b21ba06852476> <002f01cc29f2$be0a1ce0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <2F6C8B8017984C2A8563736DA67284AA@PC2> <4DF6843A.5080908@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4DF73576.4070405@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:28:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6090 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 110614-1, 14/06/2011), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: VLF in Spain Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01CC2AEA.BCD3E920" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TITLE_EMPTY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:497853152:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 2 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4ad44df7d2466b14 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CC2AEA.BCD3E920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan, My idea is to use the PC as VLF RX under 10 kHz. I think that the level = noise increased in my urban environment because I don=B4t copy the = Alpha=B4s transmissions now, however I could copy them some years ago, = when I worked on 137 kHz. I=B4ll try to improve my provisional antenna = system, perhaps with a loop I can reject some of the "made man noise" = :-) I=B4ll tell you about the experiences. 73 de Jos=E9, EA1PX ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:18 PM Subject: LF: VLF in Spain Hello Jos=E9, OK. Do you already have a receiver for VLF? If so, which one? The PC's = soundcard? Or do you just guess that you have strong QRM?=20 Many stations are in the city, like 4X1RF, SQ5BPF and me. Anyway there = is good reception, 4X1RF even at above 2500 km! Others are in the = countryside and have never really got good reception, so mostly its an = EMC issue.=20 Thus i would suggest to built a suitable antenna and run a suitable = software and monitor the total spectrum of your soundcard input which is = mostly 0...24 kHz, often called "wideband". You can see these windows = running on many grabbers such as=20 http://www.mydarc.de/df6nm/vlf/vlfgrabber.htm http://www.ok2bvg.cz/vlfgrabber/ http://qsl.net/4x1rf/yo/vlfgrabber.htm http://simnet.is/halldorgudmunds/TF3HZ_VLFgrabber/index.html http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/DK7FC_VLF_Grabber.html = and many others. Then, you'll get immediately an impression of the actual situation and = see effects like mains hum, sferics and the Alphas system and some MSKs. Seeing the Alphas and the sferics (i.e. the gap arround 8...11 UTC) is = a first good indicator for sensitivity! Actually all you need is a few Euros to build that RX antenna which = can be a loop or a E field antenna. Mosty receptions were done with the = E field antennas which have some advantages due to their low weight and = volume. But loop antennas have shown very good results as well, mostly = in quiet locations (like Paul Nicholson, F4DTL, M0BMU...). 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 14.06.2011 00:08, schrieb Jose Manuel:=20 Stefan, I=B4ll try to do some experience on sub 9kHz reception; I=B4ll try = to find a quiet location on holiday, because I live in a very noisy = urban environment. Regarding 137 kHz I had some 2-way QSO=B4s in the past with your = country, with Wolf, Markus and others, but currently my LF antenna is = down and I need to repair the SLM as well. 73 de Jos=E9, EA1PX ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 11:42 PM Subject: Re: LF: ZEVS tonight.jpg Jos=E8,=20 You can get many informations about the Dreamers Band (<9) at = G3XBMs sub 9 kHz website: https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/ Here you find record lists and advice for antennas. And you can = get every information needed HERE! :-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 13.06.2011 23:30, schrieb Jose Manuel:=20 Mal and all, You know that reception on 9 kHz is much more difficult than on = 137 kHz. I never tried to receive below 10 kHz, perhaps in a couple of = weeks, when I=B4m on holiday ;-) 73, Jos=E9, EA1PX ----- Original Message -----=20 From: mal hamilton=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 7:53 PM Subject: Re: LF: ZEVS tonight.jpg Jose In the past you were able to copy me on CW no problem, with = XBAND qso de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: jos=E9 manuel=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 4:14 PM Subject: Re: LF: ZEVS tonight.jpg Hi Stefan and all, I=B4m in the NW of Spain, locator IN53ti, but with a very = long path with you ;-) 73 de Jos=E9, EA1PX ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 11:57 PM Subject: Re: LF: ZEVS tonight.jpg Eddie,=20 Where in France will you be? http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/ = :-) Will you be RX QRV on LF/VLF? If you are in the south, = this would be an interesting region. Unfortunately there is nothing yet = from Spain on VLF... QRN will be high i assume so maybe it wouldn't be easy. = Anyway iz would be worth a try. BTW i just checked for wind and the next = weekend looks promising so far. If it will hold on, i'll try a kite VLF = experiment but still much can change until then... 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 12.06.2011 23:27, schrieb qrss:=20 Hello Nicolas Yes almost 100% transmissions at 0800 and 1700UTC. Each data element is 4min and there are 6 of those plus = 'start' and 'space' makes 8 total, 32 minutes then the final long = carrier 'stop' is 1 Hour. Good luck with the antenna, yes urban noise is the big = problem. Soon I will come to France to try some really quiet places, I = look forward to that. 73 Eddie G3ZJO On 12/06/2011 21:34, F4DTL@aol.com wrote:=20 Henny, Eddy beautifull captures. It's every day at the same hour ? 0800 and 1700 UTC ? How long the ZVES transmissions ? I built an new VLF antenna and I'll start soon = receptions.I would be in campaign to reduce urban noise. F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/ ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CC2AEA.BCD3E920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Stefan,
 
My idea is to use the PC as = VLF RX under=20 10 kHz. I think that the level noise increased in my urban environment = because I=20 don=B4t copy  the Alpha=B4s transmissions now, however I could copy = them some years ago, when I worked on 137 kHz. I=B4ll = try to=20 improve my provisional antenna system, perhaps with a loop I can reject = some of=20 the "made man noise" :-) I=B4ll tell you about the = experiences.
 
73 de Jos=E9, EA1PX
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Stefan Sch=E4fer =
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 = 12:18=20 PM
Subject: LF: VLF in Spain

Hello Jos=E9,

OK. Do you already have a receiver = for VLF?=20 If so, which one? The PC's soundcard? Or do you just guess that you = have=20 strong QRM?
Many stations are in the city, like 4X1RF, SQ5BPF and = me.=20 Anyway there is good reception, 4X1RF even at above 2500 km! Others = are in the=20 countryside and have never really got good reception, so mostly its an = EMC=20 issue.
Thus i would suggest to built a suitable antenna and run a = suitable=20 software and monitor the total spectrum of your soundcard input which = is=20 mostly 0...24 kHz, often called "wideband". You can see these windows = running=20 on many grabbers such as
http://www.mydarc.= de/df6nm/vlf/vlfgrabber.htm
http://www.ok2bvg.cz/vlfgrabber= /
http://qsl.net/4x1rf/yo/v= lfgrabber.htm
htt= p://simnet.is/halldorgudmunds/TF3HZ_VLFgrabber/index.html
http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/DK7FC_VLF_Grabber.html= =20 and many others.
Then, you'll get immediately an impression of the = actual=20 situation and see effects like mains hum, sferics and the Alphas = system and=20 some MSKs.
Seeing the Alphas and the sferics (i.e. the gap arround = 8...11=20 UTC) is a first good indicator for sensitivity!

Actually all = you need=20 is a few Euros to build that RX antenna which can be a loop or a E = field=20 antenna. Mosty receptions were done with the E field antennas which = have some=20 advantages due to their low weight and volume. But loop antennas have = shown=20 very good results as well, mostly in quiet locations (like Paul = Nicholson,=20 F4DTL, M0BMU...).

73, Stefan/DK7FC



Am 14.06.2011 = 00:08,=20 schrieb Jose Manuel:=20
Stefan,
 
I=B4ll try to do some experience on = sub 9kHz=20 reception; I=B4ll try to find a quiet location on holiday, because I = live in a=20 very noisy urban environment.
 
Regarding 137 kHz I had some 2-way = QSO=B4s in the=20 past with your country, with Wolf, Markus and others, but currently = my LF=20 antenna is down and I need to repair the SLM as well.
 
 
73 de Jos=E9, EA1PX
 
 
 
 
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 Stefan=20 Sch=E4fer To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent:=20 Monday, June 13, 2011 11:42 PM Subject:=20 Re: LF: ZEVS tonight.jpg

Jos=E8,

You can get many informations about = the=20 Dreamers Band (<9) at G3XBMs sub 9 kHz website: https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/
He= re=20 you find record lists and advice for antennas. And you can get = every=20 information needed HERE! :-)

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am = 13.06.2011=20 23:30, schrieb Jose Manuel:=20
Mal and all,
 
You know that reception on 9 = kHz is much=20 more difficult than on 137 kHz.
I never tried to receive below = 10 kHz,=20 perhaps in a couple of weeks, when I=B4m on holiday = ;-)
 
73, Jos=E9, EA1PX
 
 
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 mal hamilton To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = Sent:=20 Monday, June 13, 2011 7:53 PM Subject:=20 Re: LF: ZEVS tonight.jpg

Jose
In the past you were able to = copy me on=20 CW no problem, with XBAND qso
de mal/g3kev
 
 
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 jos=E9=20 manuel To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = Sent:=20 Monday, June 13, 2011 4:14 PM Subject:=20 Re: LF: ZEVS tonight.jpg

Hi Stefan and = all,
 
I=B4m in the NW of Spain, = locator IN53ti,=20 but with a very long path with you ;-)
 
73 de Jos=E9, = EA1PX
 
 
 
 
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 Stefan Sch=E4fer To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = Sent:=20 Sunday, June 12, 2011 11:57 PM Subject:=20 Re: LF: ZEVS tonight.jpg

Eddie,

Where in France will you be? = http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/ = :-)
Will you be RX QRV on LF/VLF? If you are in the = south, this=20 would be an interesting region. Unfortunately there is = nothing yet=20 from Spain on VLF...

QRN will be high i assume so = maybe it=20 wouldn't be easy. Anyway iz would be worth a try. BTW i = just=20 checked for wind and the next weekend looks promising so = far. If=20 it will hold on, i'll try a kite VLF experiment but still = much can=20 change until then...

73, = Stefan/DK7FC



Am=20 12.06.2011 23:27, schrieb qrss:=20
Hello Nicolas

Yes almost 100% = transmissions=20 at 0800 and 1700UTC.

Each data element is = 4min  and=20 there are 6 of those plus 'start' and 'space' makes 8 = total, 32=20 minutes then the final long carrier 'stop' is 1=20 Hour.

Good luck with the antenna, yes urban noise = is the=20 big problem. Soon I will come to France to try some = really quiet=20 places, I look forward to that.

73 Eddie = G3ZJO

On=20 12/06/2011 21:34, F4DTL@aol.com wrote:=20
Henny, Eddy beautifull captures.
 
It's every day at the same hour ? 0800 and 1700 = UTC=20 ?
How long the ZVES transmissions ?
I built an new VLF antenna and I'll start soon=20 receptions.I would be in campaign to reduce urban = noise.
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/=

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