Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id x2696N9r002665 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 10:06:29 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1h1SR9-0003hO-Lu for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 09:02:03 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1h1SR8-0003hF-Ry for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 09:02:02 +0000 Received: from dd7438.kasserver.com ([85.13.131.248]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1h1SR7-00051i-2Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 09:02:01 +0000 Received: from DESKTOPQK5LE95 (unknown [94.46.94.187]) by dd7438.kasserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 155197DA1049 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 10:01:57 +0100 (CET) From: "Greg Fismer" To: References: <1694e92eaac.marcocadeddu@tin.it> In-Reply-To: <1694e92eaac.marcocadeddu@tin.it> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 10:01:59 +0100 Message-ID: <100a01d4d3fb$42538990$c6fa9cb0$@DARC.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHadwTqZavQ/DIp/u60nxg+EWLEN6XzBDCQ Content-Language: de X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Marco, I have studied Pharmacy, which basically is a combination of chemistry and biology, and a little bit of other stuff. The first four semesters are almost entirely spent in the lab doing quantitative, q [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [85.13.131.248 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: c61917eaf8bc8733d7e85540486fff22 Subject: AW: RE: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_100B_01D4D403.A4197830" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_100B_01D4D403.A4197830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marco, =20 I have studied Pharmacy, which basically is a combination of chemistry = and biology, and a little bit of other stuff. The first four semesters = are almost entirely spent in the lab doing quantitative, qualitative and = organic synthetic chemistry. I particularly loved organic chemistry, and = one of my assignments was the synthesis of a kind of substance that has = properties of tear-gas. Whenever I was a little bit careless in = containing the substance the whole lab began to cry and I was sentenced = to buying coffee for everyone :) =20 73 de Greg DF2IC =20 Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von = marcocadeddu@tin.it Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. M=C3=A4rz 2019 16:57 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: R: RE: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland =20 Hello Marcin, hello Jacek! =20 it is nice to find a couple of chemistry graduates who find also = actractive MF/LF and VLF! I'm also a graduate in chemistry :-) do we ground a special section of = the LF group? :-D =20 anybody else here with chemistry background? =20 73, Marco IK1HSS ----Messaggio originale---- Da: bxi@go2.pl =20 Data: 4-mar-2019 22.07 A: > Ogg: RE: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland Hello Stefan! Thank you, Stefan, for your remarks and your good words. Unfortunately, = the antenna was mounted in a public venue that's why we had to take it down = just after our tests. We wanted to see whether it is possible to work in VLF using basic equipment. Once the weather conditions are good enough on a weekend I'll send an antenna mounted to a baloon into the air. I've = already done something similar working on 472kHz.=20 = = https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/2018/12/16/eksperyment-w-pasmie-630m-z= -an tena-unoszona-za-pomoca-balonu/ Currently I'm building antenna coils on ferrite cores with high = AL=3D12700. The circuit of the autotransformer has already been tested. When Jacek has a free weekend, we will be experimenting. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI -----Original Message----- From: = owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org < = owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> On Behalf Of DK7FC Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 10:27 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland Hi Jacek, Marcin, Well done! Congratulations to a first VLF signal coming from SP that is detected over such a distance, more than 1000 km! This is truely = encouraging and shows what could be done by MANY amateurs, if they would just give = it a try! A milestone for your country, from an amateur radio view. Thanks for the details in that website. It is interesting to see that = such ground loop antennas seem to work even in regions where the ground conductivity is expected to be quite high. Thanks to Paul's decode, you = now have the certainty that the signal actually propagates. Well, the ground loop seems to radiate into Paul's direction and there = is a lot of water on your path (between you and Paul). Also we (DL0AO and = DK7FC) are closer to QRN sources in south-east Europe. This will contibute to = our negative decode result here. On the other side we saw that the signal also propagates into unexpected directions, at least as long as the QRB is lower than 2000 km. It would be most welcome to see more activity from your side! And it = looks like you can rise the ERP by 10 dB without much effort. Are you planning more experiments? And when? :-) The EbNaut message was transmitted = during a time where phase changes are likely, because it was during the sunrise = at your location. Maybe you can repeat the experiment, using 2 characters transmitted over 6 hours, starting 21 UTC for example? That would help = us, here in the south, to receive your message. I will have a look at my signal recording to see the SNR for the message 'SP' later. At 75W and 300V antenna voltage you had 250 mA antenna current and, as = you wrote, 1200 Ohm. If you have 500 Ohm DC resistance then i conclude that = you did not series resonate the antenna. The reactive component was j1090 Ohm, so a series C of 177 nF (100+47+22 nF) would help to reduce = the feed point impedance to 500 Ohm. Not sure if you could then run a higher power but at least the PA losses would be a bit lower. With some cheap 0.75mm2 CCA loudspeaker cable you could reduce the wire losses by about 90%. All this is very nice promising! Good luck and i hope to get a new chance to receive you here soon. 73, Stefan Am 03.03.2019 19:44, schrieb Jacek Lipkowski: > On Sat, 2 Mar 2019, DK7FC wrote: > >> I've tried a lot of antenna mixing but did not get better spectrum=20 >> peaks that 10.5 dB SNR, so it is quite weak. Best decoder result was=20 >> 'AV' at rank 70. > > The transmitted message was: SP > >> I'm waiting for your detailed description of the experiment. What=20 >> antenna and power was used? How did you generate signal? > > A preliminary descritpion is here: > > = = https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/2019/03/03/nadawcze-proby-z-dipolem > -ziemnym-w-zakresie-vlf/ > > > > Around 100W into a 500m long earth dipole, the signal was weak and we=20 > were surprised to have Paul receive it (well, maybe not that surprised = > given Paul's excellent receiver). > > > For the 8270.005Hz carrier we used a GPS generator module (i think it=20 > might be just an uBlox GPS inside, but didn't investigate it). I think = > Marcin bought it on some auction site. > > For 8270.00073Hz we used an old Neoware terminal with an uBlox neo-7M=20 > GPS installed inside. The gps is used to provide a coarse time=20 > reference (not the best precision because the 1PPS signal is not=20 > used), and as a 20kHz reference signal connected to the terminal sound = > card. The terminal runs a slightly modified version of Paul's ebsynth, = > and some custom-written software to control the gps. This is the same=20 > generator that i've used in my other tests. I can publish some details = > in case anyone is interested. > > VY 73 > > Jacek / SQ5BPF > > ------=_NextPart_000_100B_01D4D403.A4197830 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Marco,

 

I have studied Pharmacy, which basically is a combination = of chemistry and biology, and a little bit of other stuff. The first = four semesters are almost entirely spent in the lab doing quantitative, = qualitative and organic synthetic chemistry. I particularly loved = organic chemistry, and one of my assignments was the synthesis of a kind = of substance that has properties of tear-gas. Whenever I was a little = bit careless in containing the substance the whole lab began to cry and = I was sentenced to buying coffee for everyone J

 

73 de Greg DF2IC

 

Von: = owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von = marcocadeddu@tin.it
Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. M=C3=A4rz 2019 = 16:57
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: R: = RE: VLF: ebnaut transmission from Poland

 

Hello = Marcin, hello Jacek!

 

it is nice to find a couple of chemistry graduates who = find also actractive MF/LF and VLF!

I'm also a graduate in chemistry :-) do we ground a = special section of the LF group? :-D

 

anybody else here with chemistry = background?

 

73, Marco IK1HSS


----Messaggio = originale----
Da: bxi@go2.pl
Data: 4-mar-2019 = 22.07
A: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= >
Ogg: RE: VLF: ebnaut transmission from = Poland


Hello Stefan!

Thank you, Stefan, for your = remarks and your good words. Unfortunately, the
antenna was mounted = in a public venue that's why we had to take it down just
after our = tests. We wanted to see whether it is possible to work in VLF
using = basic equipment. Once the weather conditions are good enough on = a
weekend I'll send an antenna mounted to a baloon into the air. I've = already
done something similar working on 472kHz.
https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/2018/12/16/eksperyment-w-= pasmie-630m-z-an
tena-unoszona-za-pomoca-balonu/

Currently I'm = building antenna coils on ferrite cores with high = AL=3D12700.
The circuit of the autotransformer has already = been tested.
When Jacek has a free weekend, we will be = experimenting.
73! Marcin SQ2BXI
-----Original = Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
<owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> On Behalf Of DK7FC
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 = 10:27 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: VLF: ebnaut transmission from = Poland

Hi Jacek, Marcin,

Well done! Congratulations = to a first VLF signal coming from SP that is
detected over such a = distance, more than 1000 km! This is truely encouraging
and shows = what could be done by MANY amateurs, if they would just give it = a
try!
A milestone for your country, from an amateur radio = view.

Thanks for the details in that website. It is interesting = to see that such
ground loop antennas seem to work even in regions = where the ground
conductivity is expected to be quite high. Thanks to = Paul's decode, you now
have the certainty that the signal actually = propagates.
Well, the ground loop seems to radiate into Paul's = direction and there is a
lot of water on your path (between you and = Paul). Also we (DL0AO and DK7FC)
are closer to QRN sources in = south-east Europe. This will contibute to our
negative decode result = here.
On the other side we saw that the signal also propagates into = unexpected
directions, at least as long as the QRB is lower than 2000 = km.

It would be most welcome to see more activity from your side! = And it looks
like you can rise the ERP by 10 dB without much effort. = Are you planning
more experiments? And when? :-) The EbNaut message = was transmitted during a
time where phase changes are likely, because = it was during the sunrise at
your location. Maybe you can repeat the = experiment, using 2 characters
transmitted over 6 hours, starting 21 = UTC for example? That would help us,
here in the south, to receive = your message.
I will have a look at my signal recording to see the = SNR for the message
'SP' later.

At 75W and 300V antenna = voltage you had 250 mA antenna current and, as you
wrote, 1200 Ohm. = If you have 500 Ohm DC resistance then i conclude that you
did not = series resonate the antenna. The reactive component was
j1090 Ohm, so = a series C of  177 nF (100+47+22 nF) would help to reduce = the
feed point impedance to 500 Ohm. Not sure if you could then run a = higher
power but at least the PA losses would be a bit = lower.

With some cheap 0.75mm2 CCA loudspeaker cable you could = reduce the wire
losses by about 90%.

All this is very nice = promising!

Good luck and i hope to get a new chance to receive = you here soon.

73, Stefan





Am 03.03.2019 = 19:44, schrieb Jacek Lipkowski:
> On Sat, 2 Mar 2019, DK7FC = wrote:
>
>> I've tried a lot of antenna mixing but did = not get better spectrum
>> peaks that 10.5 dB SNR, so it is = quite weak. Best decoder result was
>> 'AV' at rank = 70.
>
> The transmitted message was: SP
>
>> = I'm waiting for your detailed description of the experiment. What =
>> antenna and power was used? How did you generate = signal?
>
> A preliminary descritpion is = here:
>
> https://klubnl.pl/wpr/en/index.php/2019/03/03/nadawcze-proby= -z-dipolem
> = -ziemnym-w-zakresie-vlf/
>
>
>
> Around 100W = into a 500m long earth dipole, the signal was weak and we
> were = surprised to have Paul receive it (well, maybe not that surprised =
> given Paul's excellent = receiver).
>
>
> For the 8270.005Hz carrier we = used a GPS generator module (i think it
> might be just an uBlox = GPS inside, but didn't investigate it). I think
> Marcin bought = it on some auction site.
>
> For 8270.00073Hz we used an old = Neoware terminal with an uBlox neo-7M
> GPS installed inside. The = gps is used to provide a coarse time
> reference (not the best = precision because the 1PPS signal is not
> used), and as a 20kHz = reference signal connected to the terminal sound
> card. The = terminal runs a slightly modified version of Paul's ebsynth,
> = and some custom-written software to control the gps. This is the same =
> generator that i've used in my other tests. I can publish some = details
> in case anyone is interested.
>
> VY = 73
>
> Jacek / = SQ5BPF
>
>



------=_NextPart_000_100B_01D4D403.A4197830--