Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E7E3338000089; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 11:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1StKl2-0004gG-Bc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:41:16 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1StKl1-0004g3-Bw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:41:15 +0100 Received: from smtpout4.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.68] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1StKkv-0003eM-RH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:41:14 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.21.81]) by mwinf5d59 with ME id drh71j00H1kxrWA03rh7qM; Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:41:08 +0200 Message-ID: <0BE5DA16A4364A08B516BDF2081CF6BC@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <500C40DA.7080808@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <500C723E.7070409@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <359024010D8640938234BFC3BA2C265C@White> In-Reply-To: <359024010D8640938234BFC3BA2C265C@White> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 16:41:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Thanks Markus Last night , OP32 test , I see only your signal reached rn3agc , was propagation down compared to the last nights , but Mike also reached TF3 For the psk system to work, you will need to run the windows software ? [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.68 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: b843b92a4a25666dd9dbb30c4f27eae0 Subject: Re: LF: Good OP8 results .. Q 136 OP32 Test ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01CD68F1.F535E750" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:477757760:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608d500d70f87c5a X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01CD68F1.F535E750 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Markus=20 Last night , OP32 test , I see only your signal reached rn3agc , = was propagation down compared to the last nights , but Mike also = reached TF3=20 For the psk system to work, you will need to run the windows = software ? =20 S/N , well one problem with static s/n measurements is that , = the real radio path is not included , so signal variations are = not allowed for , decode levels of -40 dB s/n are average , so = the lower detection levels can be 10 dB lower again=20 One thing from the test , the beacon timer is only x2 64 mins = timer is too long , next issue , this will be 30 mins , Mike = may of missed windows with the 1 hour timer running =20 Recovery of s/n data from PSk- There has been a change to the = adif log file, so , shortly , the adif download , should have = the s/n level of the record as well , hopefully there exists = at application to extract the data and map the results .. =20 73 -G.. From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:25 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Good OP8 results .. Q 136 OP32 Test ? Hi Graham, yes, I've been testing two rounds of "homemade" opera-32 on 137.590 kHz, = 0.6 W ERP. Also had a go at opera-8 in the middle (ending 22:25) which = apparently went unnoticed. PSK reporter surely has no idea of where I live, and for some reason it = erroneously located me at IO91UX (incidentally the QTH of M0FMT). Thus = the distances on the web are not correct. BTW is it possible to read the SNR off pskmap as well, or only from the = application? -39 dB on Opera's "slightly biased average power scale" = would mean -35 dB carrier vs noise in 2.5 kHz. Which would be +14 dB SNR = in 30 mHz, ie. a comfortable "O" in QRSS-30, and probably readable in = QRSS-10 as well. Best regards, Markus (DF6NM in Nuernberg JN59NJ) PS just noticed that TF3HZ has managed to capture my second op-32 = transmission (ending 23:07). This should be about 2540 km or so. From: Graham=20 Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:45 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Good OP8 results .. Q 136 OP32 Test ? Ok Stefan =20 DF6NM has just decoded at -39 dB with RN3AGC , this is right = at the lower s/n of OP32=20 22:16 136 DF6NM de RN3AGC Op32 1541 mi -39 dB in Moscow with 3w + Tube = TX ant 35 So a good start , may be OP32 would decode TA , we will see = during the next time ? 73-G.. From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 10:35 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Good OP8 results .. Q 136 OP32 Test ? Wow, i can see EA7HAZ. That is a nice "goal". There are a few stations = on that pskmap that i never heared from on the reflector. That looks = like a real chance to get some newcomers. At least i have some hope! Well, now i am not in Heidelberg and cannot transmit this night but i = may give it a try soon again. Good luck for Mike! 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 22.07.2012 21:17, schrieb Graham:=20 Ok Stefan, Well , we can only wait and watch ! , there are 14 monitors at = the moment , just hope , switched to OP32=20 It is summer , may be 136 activity was not expected , could be = on vacation etc ? Audio band for OP32 is 100 Hz 1500 to 1600 Hz with +/- 2 = Hz total system stability requirement , this should not be a = problem=20 GL 73 -G.. From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 7:05 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Good OP8 results .. Q 136 OP32 Test ? Hi Graham,=20 I do not doubt that W1VD will decode me on OP32 these days. But are = there others like VO1NA? I also wrote an email to him but got no answer = so far. What about VE1VDM? 73, Stefan Am 22.07.2012 18:09, schrieb Graham:=20 Remarkable results using OP8 on on 136 from Stefan, Mike = and Tom both reaching TF3HZ 1858 Km and RN3AGC / RX3QFM , = though not at the same s/n level !, but both decoding inside the = OP8 limits=20 While the condx, appeared not to support TA propagation , this = would be a good opportunity to to test the OP32 mode Could we ask, those using Opera OP8 on 136 to change to OP32 = for any overnight or other beacon activity for comparison ? OP32 offer's a 6 dB lower decode s/n , but with X4 longer = tx 'times' may provide range extension greater than predicted by = s/n , the system working by average power along the time line , = being able to take advantage of qsb and flash events .. Thanks All=20 Graham G0NBD INFO :- Follow the progress of Op8 tests and other 136 activity on Mikes = Blog, http://g3xdv.blogspot.co.uk/ 400 mW ERP >> 136kHz Op8 to Iceland and Russia Transmitted an Opera8 beacon again overnight on the 136kHz band and = got reports from RN3AGC, RX3QFM and TF3HZ (-32dB). The Icelandic station = produced five decodes between 0022 and 0202. Best distance was 2681km to RX3QFM. = Highlights were as follows: 02:02 136 G3XDV de TF3HZ Op8 1858 km -35 dB in Reykjavik 01:37 136 G3XDV de TF3HZ Op8 1858 km -31 dB in Reykjavik 01:12 136 G3XDV de TF3HZ Op8 1858 km -32 dB in Reykjavik 00:47 136 G3XDV de TF3HZ Op8 1858 km -32 dB in Reykjavik 00:47 136 G3XDV de RX3QFM Op8 2681 km -33 dB in KO91OO 00:22 136 G3XDV de TF3HZ Op8 1858 km -32 dB in Reykjavik 00:22 136 G3XDV de RN3AGC Op8 2483 km -34 dB in Moscow 23:57 136 G3XDV de RN3AGC Op8 2483 km -31 dB in Moscow ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01CD68F1.F535E750 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks  Markus
 
Last night  , OP32  test , I see  only  = your =20 signal   reached  rn3agc , was  propagation  = down =20 compared to the  last  nights , but Mike  also =20 reached  TF3
 
For the  psk system to  work, you  will  = need =20 to  run the  windows  software ? 
 
S/N , well  one  problem  with   = static =20 s/n  measurements  is that  , the  real  = radio =20 path is  not  included , so  signal  = variations =20 are  not  allowed  for  , decode levels  = of  -40=20 dB s/n  are  average , so  the  lower = detection =20 levels  can be  10 dB lower  again
 
One thing  from the test  , the  beacon timer  = is =20 only  x2   64 mins  timer  is  too  = long ,=20 next  issue  , this  will  be   30 = mins =20 ,  Mike  may of  missed  windows  with = the  1=20 hour  timer  running 
 
Recovery of   s/n data  from  PSk-  =20 There  has been  a  change to the  adif  = log =20 file,  so  , shortly  , the  adif  download ,=20 should  have the  s/n  level  of the  = record =20 as  well  , hopefully  there  exists  at =20 application  to  extract the  data  and  map = the =20 results .. 
 
73 = -G..

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:25 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: Good OP8 results .. Q 136 OP32 Test=20 ?

Hi Graham,
 
yes, I've been testing two rounds of = "homemade"=20 opera-32 on 137.590 kHz, 0.6 W ERP. Also had a go at opera-8 in the = middle=20 (ending 22:25) which apparently went unnoticed.
 
PSK reporter surely has no idea of = where I=20 live, and for some reason it erroneously located me at IO91UX = (incidentally=20 the QTH of M0FMT). Thus the distances on the web are not=20 correct.
 
BTW is it possible to read the SNR = off pskmap=20 as well, or only from the application? -39 dB on=20 Opera's "slightly biased average power scale" would mean -35 = dB=20 carrier vs noise in 2.5 kHz. Which would be +14 dB SNR in = 30=20 mHz, ie. a comfortable "O" in QRSS-30, and probably readable in = QRSS-10 as=20 well.
 
Best regards,
Markus (DF6NM=20 in Nuernberg JN59NJ)
 
PS =20 just noticed that TF3HZ has managed to capture my second op-32 = transmission=20 (ending 23:07). This should be about 2540 km or so.

From: Graham
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Good OP8 results .. Q 136 OP32 Test=20 ?

Ok Stefan 
 
DF6NM   has  just  decoded  at  -39 = dB =20 with  RN3AGC  , this  is  right  at the =20 lower  s/n of  OP32
22:16 136 DF6NM de RN3AGC Op32 1541 mi -39 dB in = Moscow=20 with 3w + Tube TX ant 35
So a good  start , may  be  OP32  would=20 decode   TA , we  will  see  during  = the =20 next  time  ?
 
73-G..

From: Stefan = Sch=E4fer
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 10:35 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: Good OP8 results .. Q 136 OP32 Test=20 ?

Wow, i can see EA7HAZ. That is a nice "goal". There are a = few=20 stations on that pskmap that i never heared from on the reflector. That = looks=20 like a real chance to get some newcomers. At least i have some = hope!
Well,=20 now i am not in Heidelberg and cannot transmit this night but i may give = it a=20 try soon again.

Good luck for Mike!

73, = Stefan/DK7FC


Am=20 22.07.2012 21:17, schrieb Graham:=20
Ok Stefan,
 
Well , we can only  wait  and  watch  ! , = there =20 are  14  monitors  at the  moment , just  = hope =20 , switched  to  OP32
It is  summer , may be  136  activity  = was =20 not  expected , could be  on vacation etc ?
 
Audio  band  for  OP32  is   100 = Hz =20 1500  to  1600 Hz  with  +/-   2 = Hz  =20 total  system  stability  requirement  , = this  should=20 not  be a  problem
 
GL 73 -G..

Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 7:05 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Good OP8 results .. Q 136 OP32 Test=20 ?

Hi Graham,

I do not doubt that W1VD will decode = me on=20 OP32 these days. But are there others like VO1NA? I also wrote an = email to him=20 but got no answer so far. What about VE1VDM?

73, = Stefan

Am=20 22.07.2012 18:09, schrieb Graham:=20
Remarkable   results  using   = OP8  on=20 on  136  from  Stefan,  Mike and  Tom=20  both  reaching  TF3HZ    1858 = Km  =20 and   RN3AGC / RX3QFM , though  not  at = the =20 same  s/n level !, but  both  decoding  inside = the =20 OP8 limits
 
While the condx, appeared  not to  support  TA=20 propagation  , this  would  be a  good =20 opportunity  to  to  test the  OP32 mode
 
Could we ask, those using  Opera OP8  =  on=20 136 to  change to  OP32  for  any = overnight =20 or  other  beacon  activity for comparison = ?
 
OP32  offer's  a  6 dB lower  decode = s/n  ,=20 but  with  X4   longer  tx 'times'  = may =20 provide  range  extension greater than  = predicted =20 by  s/n , the  system working  by  average  = power  along the  time  line , being  able = to =20 take  advantage of  qsb  and  flash  events = ..
 
Thanks  All
 
Graham
G0NBD
 
INFO :-
 
Follow the progress of Op8 tests and other 136 activity on = Mikes=20 Blog,

http://g3xdv.blogspot.co.uk/

400 = mW   ERP >>  136kHz Op8 to Iceland and=20 Russia

Transmitted an Opera8 beacon again overnight on the = 136kHz=20 band and got reports
from RN3AGC, RX3QFM and TF3HZ (-32dB). The = Icelandic=20 station produced five
decodes between 0022 and 0202. Best = distance was=20 2681km to RX3QFM. Highlights
were as follows:

02:02 136 = G3XDV de=20 TF3HZ Op8 1858 km -35 dB in Reykjavik
01:37 136 G3XDV de TF3HZ = Op8 1858=20 km -31 dB in Reykjavik
01:12 136 G3XDV de TF3HZ Op8 1858 km -32 = dB in=20 Reykjavik
00:47 136 G3XDV de TF3HZ Op8 1858 km -32 dB in=20 Reykjavik
00:47 136 G3XDV de RX3QFM Op8 2681 km -33 dB in = KO91OO
00:22=20 136 G3XDV de TF3HZ Op8 1858 km -32 dB in Reykjavik
00:22 136 = G3XDV de=20 RN3AGC Op8 2483 km -34 dB in Moscow
23:57 136 G3XDV de RN3AGC Op8 = 2483 km=20 -31 dB in Moscow
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