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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id s17si5089810wiv.58.2014.03.01.11.10.59 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 11:11:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@btinternet.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1WJoP7-0000j8-7E for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 18:12:53 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1WJoP6-0000iz-JV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 18:12:52 +0000 Received: from smtpout13.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk ([65.20.0.133]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WJoP4-0002mp-Ba for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 18:12:51 +0000 X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A090203.53122320.01E3,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 X-Junkmail-Premium-Raw: score=12/97,refid=2.7.2:2014.3.1.121515:17:12.185,ip=,rules=__HAS_MSGID, __SANE_MSGID, MSGID_32HEX_LC, INVALID_MSGID_NO_FQDN, __MSGID_32HEX, __HAS_FROM, __PHISH_FROM2, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL_FROM, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __SUBJ_ALPHA_END, __MIME_VERSION, __CT, __CTYPE_MULTIPART_ALT, __CTYPE_HAS_BOUNDARY, __CTYPE_MULTIPART, __HAS_X_PRIORITY, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI, __HAS_X_MAILER, USER_AGENT_OE, __OUTLOOK_MUA_1, __USER_AGENT_MS_GENERIC, __ANY_URI, __FRAUD_BODY_WEBMAIL, __URI_NO_WWW, __CP_URI_IN_BODY, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE, SUPERLONG_LINE, __HAS_HTML, BODY_SIZE_10000_PLUS, BODYTEXTH_SIZE_10000_LESS, __MIME_HTML, __TAG_EXISTS_HTML, __URI_NS, __PHISH_FROM, __OUTLOOK_MUA, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown Received: from gnat (86.146.137.200) by smtpout13.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (8.6.100.99.10223) (authenticated as alan.melia@btinternet.com) id 530F7611002288A4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 1 Mar 2014 18:12:48 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1393697570; bh=yEBCw+ueRFOh7fJHGj0YBMnJtOWw+PpRo8ET5nA92ng=; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer; b=L+uqW3k/HEb63S7fNGAxDoMyIJfpzozxRWrP6gbZLuf7E/23aOVqAQi+86Y6MmCY3/561/pk8aC1fOqbTCDI8YcSu1D/K2FxngFDXou8RnZaU9yySBU0gtZoXXTK79bBXJ3BX5Z2DpKdcCtURwmRvs5x8eDAlFl9pd7ppFWq+EU= Message-ID: <0BBAB019609B4DF69ED8DC4EE820D0AC@gnat> From: "Alan Melia" To: References: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 18:12:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Warren I think the 70kHz "boundary" is just the point at which the Earth-Ionosphere waveguide supports so many different modes that the modelling becomes difficult and the ray path is as effective. Even this transition is fuzzy and is often quoted as low as 50kHz. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.20.0.133 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 5624f0ff3acda0934438723229c028ec Subject: Re: LF: Re: U.S. VLF License WH2XBA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01CF3579.DA467800" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CF3579.DA467800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Warren I think the 70kHz "boundary" is just the point at which the = Earth-Ionosphere waveguide supports so many different modes that the = modelling becomes difficult and the ray path is as effective. Even this = transition is fuzzy and is often quoted as low as 50kHz.=20 It may be of interest that Paul Nicholson has put a web front end to the = LWPC propagation code http://abelian.org/lwpc/ This gives reasonable results up to around = 45kHz. I have done some tests on it and it gives quite sensible answers. Alan=20 G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Warren Ziegler=20 To: rsgb_lf_group=20 Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 3:54 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: U.S. VLF License WH2XBA Hi Alan, I agree, there was nothing that I could find that indicated that = there would be a problem at 30kHz. I even checked with a well known vlf = expert who has done design work for some of the BIG military vlf = systems. Somewhere around 70kHz there is a transitional area between = waveguide modes applicable at vlf and ray-tracing which is applicable at = higher frequencies. The increased number of modes above 70kHz I believe = explains the deep fading there as the modes constructively and = destructively interfere. However, it didn't hurt to ask for the additional frequencies as = Dex was able to use an existing loading coil to get on 45kHz within = hours of the license being issued! 73 Warren K2ORS On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Alan Melia = wrote: Hi Warren I cant see30kHz being particularly different for = propgation in that part of the spectrum. I can see 2nd harmonic trashing = WWVB clock synchronisation over a substantial area though, bearing in = mind the receivers are very simple.........and most only try to sync = around midnight. Alan G3NYK. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Warren Ziegler=20 To: rsgb_lf_group=20 Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 3:17 PM Subject: LF: U.S. VLF License WH2XBA Hello the list, Several questions have come up concerning the WH2XBA grant and = I thought I might address them here. Bob W2ZM contacted me about = applying for a grant at the top end of the vlf range (just below 30kHz). The thought was that the high end of vlf would be a bit less = challenging than the low end below 9kHz (which is unregulated). Some of the usual suspects expressed interest so they were = added to the application. Also Jim AA5BW - Jim and I have a mutual = friend through work - Jim is highly capable and technical and has = multiple sites throughout the country. There was some concern that the = frequencies around 30kHz were unoccupied due to propagation reasons and = some thought it might be good to go a bit higher, hence the 27-59kHz = range, leaving clearance for WWVB at the top end.=20 The license is for 5W ERP, 27-59kHz, CW and every data mode = that I could think of. The application was filed on January 29 and the license issued = on February 27 - this was despite some Federal Holidays and closings due = to blizzards! So I suspect that it didn't raise too many questions. The stations are: WH2XBA/1 Bob W2ZM WH2XBA/2 Warren K2ORS WH2XBA/3 Jay W1VD WH2XBA/4 Dex W4DEX WH2XBA/5 Laurence KL1L=20 WH2XBA/6 /7 /8 etc etc James Plesa AA5BW WH2XBA Grant Attached. 73 Warren K2ORS --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ=20 WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1=20 WG2XRS/1 WH2XBA/2 =20 --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ=20 WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CF3579.DA467800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Warren I think the 70kHz "boundary" = is just the=20 point at which the Earth-Ionosphere waveguide supports so many different = modes=20 that the modelling becomes difficult and the ray path is as = effective. =20 Even this transition is fuzzy and is often quoted as low as 50kHz. =
 
It may be of interest that Paul = Nicholson has put a=20 web front end to the LWPC propagation code
http://abelian.org/lwpc/  = This gives=20 reasonable results up to around 45kHz. I have done some tests on it and = it gives=20 quite sensible answers.
 
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Warren = Ziegler=20
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 = 3:54=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: U.S. VLF = License=20 WH2XBA

Hi Alan,

      I agree, there was nothing that I could find = that=20 indicated that there would be a problem at 30kHz. I even checked with = a well=20 known vlf expert who has done design work for some of the BIG military = vlf=20 systems. Somewhere around 70kHz there is a transitional area between = waveguide=20 modes applicable at vlf and ray-tracing which is applicable at higher=20 frequencies. The increased number of modes above 70kHz I believe = explains the=20 deep fading there as the modes constructively and destructively=20 interfere.
   However, it didn't hurt to ask for the additional=20 frequencies as Dex was able to use an existing loading coil to get on = 45kHz=20 within hours of the license being issued!


73 Warren K2ORS



On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Alan Melia = <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:
Hi Warren I cant see30kHz being particularly = different=20 for propgation in that part of the spectrum. I can see 2nd harmonic = trashing=20 WWVB clock synchronisation over a substantial area though, bearing = in mind=20 the receivers are very simple.........and most only try to sync = around=20 midnight.
 
Alan
G3NYK.
----- Original Message ----- =
From: = Warren=20 Ziegler
To: rsgb_lf_group=20
Sent: Saturday, March 01, = 2014 3:17=20 PM
Subject: LF: U.S. VLF = License=20 WH2XBA

Hello the list,

    Several questions have come up concerning the = WH2XBA=20 grant and I thought I might address them here.  Bob W2ZM = contacted me=20 about applying for a grant at the top end of the vlf range (just = below=20 30kHz).
The thought was that the high end of vlf would be a bit less=20 challenging than the low end below 9kHz (which is = unregulated).

    Some of the usual suspects expressed interest = so they=20 were added to the application. Also Jim AA5BW - Jim and I have a = mutual=20 friend through work - Jim is highly capable and  technical = and has=20 multiple sites throughout the country.   There was some = concern that=20 the frequencies around 30kHz were unoccupied due to propagation = reasons=20 and some thought it might be good to go a bit higher, hence the = 27-59kHz=20 range, leaving clearance for WWVB at the top end. 

     The license is for 5W ERP, 27-59kHz, CW = and every=20 data mode that I could think of.

    The application was filed on January 29 and the = license=20 issued on February 27 - this was despite some Federal Holidays and = closings due to blizzards!  So I suspect that it didn't raise = too=20 many questions.

     The stations are:
WH2XBA/1     = Bob=20 W2ZM
WH2XBA/2   Warren=20 K2ORS
WH2XBA/3     = Jay=20 W1VD
WH2XBA/4     = Dex=20  W4DEX
WH2XBA/5   Laurence=20 KL1L 
WH2XBA/6 /7 /8 etc etc James Plesa AA5BW
 

WH2XBA Grant Attached.

73 Warren K2ORS

--
73 Warren K2ORS
      =  =20         WD2XGJ
        =  =20       WD2XSH/23
        =  =20       WE2XEB/2
        =    =20     WE2XGR/1=20
               =20 WG2XRS/1
               =20 WH2XBA/2

 =20 =


--
73 Warren K2ORS
        =  =20       WD2XGJ
          =  =20     WD2XSH/23
            =  =20   WE2XEB/2
              =  =20 WE2XGR/1

 
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