Return-Path: Received: from rly-mh09.mx.aol.com (rly-mh09.mail.aol.com [172.21.166.145]) by air-mh08.mail.aol.com (v121_r5.5) with ESMTP id MAILINMH082-bf84966739f8b; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:47:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-mh09.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMH098-bf84966739f8b; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:44:02 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LL2f0-0000jC-5t for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:43:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LL2ez-0000j3-AW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:43:25 +0000 Received: from mout2.freenet.de ([195.4.92.92]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LL2ex-0003CY-Hx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:43:25 +0000 Received: from [195.4.92.20] (helo=10.mx.freenet.de) by mout2.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.69 #76) id 1LL2ev-0001qX-GX; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:43:21 +0100 Received: from w3c8b.w.pppool.de ([89.58.60.139]:1895 helo=2a2d7ed321c6425) by 10.mx.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.69 #76) id 1LL2er-0003Tt-VY; Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:43:21 +0100 From: "Beckmann, Gerhard" To: Cc: "'Chris Osborn'" References: <661888.79627.qm@web28507.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:43:25 +0100 Message-ID: <0ADA06CA43A34FB2A0AF972E6D77252A@2a2d7ed321c6425> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <661888.79627.qm@web28507.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AclxcDZq9dgJStjFRyyzJejyT3EpWgAZTqFQ X-Karma: -1000: sorbs.safe: if-match(0) => return-bad(1.0) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: LF: 500 kHz - Silent majority Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01C971E2.86C9A7C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C971E2.86C9A7C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hallo Chris, =20 just now I read your sad message about reducing your CW-activities on 500 kc= . Because this band is unfortunately still not released for German radio amate= urs, I am often listening for stations in CW- and QRSS - Mode, and I am alwa= ys happy to hear someone on this very interesting frequency. Also it should be taken into consideration, that not all OM=E2=80=99s are fa= miliar with the new Digital Modes on this experimental band. So I would be very happy if there would operate some OM=E2=80=99s still in t= he =E2=80=9Ctraditional modes=E2=80=9D. Last but not least only these modes are allowing crossband.QSO=E2=80=99s whi= ch are making our hobby somewhat more interesting. =20 vy 73 de Gerhard / DK6NI =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _____ =20 Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] Im Auftrag von Chris Osborn Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. Januar 2009 10:02 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: 500 kHz - Silent majority =20 I deduce that my (fairly) frequent transmissions on MF may be causing some annoyance and inconvenience to local stations. =20 Consequently I shall be QRT on 500 kHz for the remainder of this month. This will give local stations an opportunity to use a quiet band without G3XIZ QRM. =20 I must report that sadly Adrian G4GDR has dismantled his MF equipment and returned his N.O.V. to OfCom. He was an active and keen MF operator and constructor but has lost interest=20= due to lack of activity. I for one will miss him. =20 73 Chris G3XIZ =20 =20 =20 _____ =20 From: Dave G3WCB To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Monday, 5 January, 2009 22:22:55 Subject: RE: LF: Re: Silent majority =EF=BB=BF=20 Dear LF,=20 =20 Geri DK8KW and Markus did some interesting slow-voice experiments on 137 kHz= a few years back.=20 =20 Definitely not a DX-mode, and a bit of a bandwidth-gobbler too ;-) =20 Follow the link below:-=20 =20 http://www.qru.de/slowvoice.html =20 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep..org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org]On Behalf Of M0FMT Sent: 05 January 2009 02:37 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep..org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Silent majority Hi LF=20 Since by general consent the 600m band is now wide open for experimentation=20= of whatever computer aided mode that can be down loaded for free off the Int= ernet. Might I suggest the use of SSTV. They say a picture is worth a 1000 w= ords. I have thousands of holiday snaps I would like to share with the world= by way of a 24/7 beaconing experiment. The result may be a bit more intere= sting than the shopping lists of stations worked, equipment lists and rig sp= ecifications that get churned out ad nauseam over the weekends.=20 I am not sure what my afore mentioned local Amateur Radio 600m op friends wo= uld feel being only a few miles away from my QTH.=20 No, the above suggestion is ridiculous. It does however, Einstein, Planck et= al withstanding, beg the question; what is a suitable maximum bandwidth for= the development of new modes on our British 3Kc/s 600m band? I will start=20= the ball rolling by saying a BW no more than 50c/s. G3PLX managed with less=20= than 32c/s BW. Since there is a QSB / QRN issue on this band then hand shaki= ng could be introduced to ensure error free data transfer a bit like X25 slo= w but sure yet confined in a very narrow bandwidth say 50c/s max. We need t= o think outside the box and not try to shoe horn unsuitable modes onto 600m.= To evoke names like Planck and co with all due respect to Alberto (who I ad= mire immensely for his great innovations with DSP, SDR, FFT processing softw= are) I think, is over the top. Nobody is into book burning and denial of sp= ectrum to impede progress but we only have 3kc/s to play with here in the UK= . I consider myself a =E2=80=9Cgrunt=E2=80=9D operator not a highflying=20= =E2=80=9CEinstein=E2=80=9D radio spectrum quantum mechanic, but I would hope= we are trying to do more with less and I don=E2=80=99t think Olivia is the=20= answer. Whatever modes are proposed and developed, I would expect one of the= cardinal points in their specification, along with very narrow BW, to be co= mpatibility with adjacent modes like CW and the effect on adjacent stations=20= not running that particular mode.=20 In the mean time I am hoping to improve my manual CW skills assuming there a= re any stations still interested in that form of error correcting narrow ban= d data transfer and are still prepared to QSO with me.=20 Now retreating into my cave with my knuckles dragging along the ground.=20 Vy 73 petefmt=20 --- On Mon, 5/1/09, Alberto di Bene wrote: From: Alberto di Bene Subject: LF: Re: Silent majority To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 5 January, 2009, 12:05 AM Steve McDonald wrote: >> There is virtually nothing new to discover or invent that has not already >> taken place on MF. >=20 > There you go guys. You may as well stop your 600m experiments right now as > Mal has proclaimed that there is "nothing new to discover". Wouldn't it be > wonderful if we could all see the future as clearly as he apparently does. > What an amazing gift. >=20 > VE7SL / Steve =20 This reminds me what Max Planck did write at the beginning of past century. At the turn of the 20th century scientists were absolutely certain that ther= e was nothing more to be discovered in theoretical physics. Max Planck, recalling the mood of optimism and conviction at that time, wrot= e: =20 =E2=80=9CWhen I began my physical studies [in Munich in 1874] and sought adv= ice from my venerable teacher Phillipp von Jolly... he portrayed to me physics as a highly developed almost fully matured science.... Possibly in one or another nook there would perhaps be a dust particle or a small bubble to be examined and classified, but the system as a whole stood there fairly secured, and theoretical physics approached visibly that degree of perfection which, for example, geometry has had already for centuries=E2=80=9D. =20 The history of physics during the 20th century did show how dumb was that point of view... =20 73 Alberto I2PHD =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C971E2.86C9A7C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hallo Chris,<= o:p>

 

just now I read your sad message about r= educing your CW-activities on 500 kc.

Because this band= is unfortunately still not released for German radio amateurs, I am often listening for stations in CW- and QRSS - Mode, and I am always happy to hear someone on this very inte= resting frequency.

Also it should be taken into consideration, that not=20= all OM=E2=80=99s are familiar with the n= ew Digital Modes on this experimental band.

So I would be very happy if there would operate some=20= OM=E2=80=99s still in the =E2=80=9Ctradi= tional modes=E2=80=9D.

Last but not least only these modes are allowing cros= sband.QSO=E2=80=99s which are making our hobby somewhat more interesting.

 

vy 73 de Gerhard=C2=A0 /=C2=A0 DK6NI

 

 

 

 

 =

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] Im Auftrag von Chris Osbo= rn
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. Janu= ar 2009 10:02
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org
Betreff: LF: 500 kHz - Silent majority

 

I deduce that my (fairly) frequent transmissions on MF m= ay be causing

some annoyance and inconvenience to local stations.=

 

Consequently I shall be QRT on 500 kHz for the remainder= of this month.

This will give local stations an opportunity to use = ;a quiet band without

G3XIZ QRM.

 

I must report that sadly Adrian G4GDR has dismantled his= MF equipment

and returned his N.O.V. to OfCom.

He was an active and keen MF operator and constructor bu= t has lost interest due

to lack of activity.

I for one will miss him.

 

73 Chris G3XIZ

 


 

 

From: Dave G3WCB <ganymede444@btopenworld.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org
Sent: Monday, 5 January, 2009 22:22:55
Subject: RE: LF: Re: Silent majority

=EF=BB=BF

Dear LF, =

 

Geri DK8KW and Markus d= id some interesting slow-voice experiments on 137 kHz a few years back.

 

Definitely not a DX-mod= e, and a bit of a bandwidth-gobbler too ;-)

 

Follow the link below:-=

 

 

73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM

 =

-----Original Mess= age-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep..org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.o= rg]On Behalf Of M0FMT
Sent: 05 January 2009 02:37 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= .org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Silent majority

Hi LF

Since by=20= general consent the 600m band is now wide open for experimentation of whatever computer aided mode that can be down loaded for free off the Internet. Might I suggest th= e use of SSTV. They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. I have thousands of= holiday snaps I would like to share with the world by way of a 24/7 beaconing experiment.  The result may be a bit more interesting than the shoppi= ng lists of stations worked, equipment lists and rig specifications that get churned out ad nauseam over th= e weekends.

I am not=20= sure what my afore mentioned local Amateur Radio 600m op friends would feel being only a few miles away from my QTH.

No, the a= bove suggestion is ridiculous. It does however, Einstein, Planck et al withstanding, beg t= he question; what is a suitable maximum bandwidth for the development of new modes on our British 3Kc/s 600m band?  I will start the ball rolling=20= by saying a BW no more than 50c/s. G3PLX managed with less than 32c/s BW. Sin= ce there is a QSB / QRN issue on this band then hand shaking could be introdu= ced to ensure error free data transfer a bit like X25 slow but sure yet confin= ed in a very narrow bandwidth say 50c/s max.  We need to think outside t= he box and not try to shoe horn unsuitable modes onto 600m. To evoke names li= ke Planck and co with all due respect to Alberto (who I admire immensely for=20= his great innovations with DSP, SDR, FFT processing software) I think,  i= s over the top. Nobody is into book burning and denial of spectrum to impede progress but we only have 3kc/s to play with here in the UK.  I consi= der myself a =E2=80=9Cgrunt=E2=80=9D operator not a highflying =E2=80=9CEinste= in=E2=80=9D radio spectrum quantum mechanic, but I would hope we are trying to do more with less and I don= =E2=80=99t think Olivia is the answer. Whatever modes are proposed and developed, I would expect one of the cardinal points in their specification, along with very narrow BW, to be compatibility with adjacent modes like CW and the effect on adjacent stations not running that particular mode.

In the me= an time I am hoping to improve my manual CW skills assuming there are any stations still interest= ed in that form of error correcting narrow band data transfer and are still prepared to QSO with me.

Now retre= ating into my cave with my knuckles dragging along the ground.

Vy 73 pet= efmt



--- On Mon, 5/1/09, Alberto di Bene <dibene@usa.net> wrote:

From: Alberto di Bene <dibene@usa.net>
Subject: LF: Re: Silent majority
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Monday, 5 January, 2009, 12:05 AM

=
Steve McDonald wrote:
>> There is virtu=
ally nothing new to discover or invent that has not=

already
>> taken place on MF.
> 
> There=
 you go guys. You may as well stop your 600m experiments right now as
> Mal has proclaimed that there is "nothing=
 new to discover".
Wouldn't it be
> wonderful if we could all see the future as cl=
early as he apparently does.
> What an ama=
zing gift.
> 
> VE7SL / Steve
 
This reminds me what Max Planck did write at the beginning of=
 past century.
At the turn of the 20th centur=
y scientists were absolutely certain that there
was nothing more to be discovered in theoretical physics.
Max Planck, recalling the mood of optimism and conviction at=
 that time, wrote:
 
=E2=80=9CWhen I began my physical studies [in Munich in 1874] an=
d sought advice from
my venerable teacher Phi=
llipp von Jolly... he portrayed to me physics as a<=
/pre>
highly developed almost fully matured science.... Possibly in one or a=
nother
nook there would perhaps be a dust par=
ticle or a small bubble to be examined
and cl=
assified, but the system as a whole stood there fairly secured, and
theoretical physics approached visibly that degree of=
 perfection which,
for example, geometry has=20=
had already for centuries=E2=80=9D.
&nbs=
p;
The history of physics during the 20th century=20=
did show how dumb was that
point of view...<=
o:p>
 
73=C2=
=A0 Alberto=C2=A0 I2PHD
 
 
 
 

 

 

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