Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id tAED7kw3001016 for <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org>; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 14:07:46 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ZxaUU-0004v9-30 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 13:03:38 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ZxaUT-0004v0-El for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 13:03:37 +0000 Received: from smtpout3.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.59] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>) id 1ZxaTT-0005IJ-Sl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 13:03:36 +0000 Received: from AGB ([95.150.81.41]) by mwinf5d35 with ME id hR2D1r00H0tVK6703R2EgX; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 14:02:17 +0100 X-ME-Helo: AGB X-ME-Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 14:02:17 +0100 X-ME-IP: 95.150.81.41 Message-ID: <0A7B86C5D6DC46E2BFCE3A3617813A31@AGB> From: "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B286613@servigilant.vigilant.local> <0ADAA2ADD4844DA1B2EC8471B7B28629@AGB> <D57E235998E446B7B855ACC37C7521C6@AGB> <3C386F463D28484AA74889615A91FD91@PCFausto> In-Reply-To: <3C386F463D28484AA74889615A91FD91@PCFausto> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 13:02:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Scan-Signature: 0fb96da3ad43bfecb54604b5b5e77385 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01D11EDC.AE5FFE20" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5062 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01D11EDC.AE5FFE20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Fausto Well, for a long time the minimal frequency shift in wspr was = a mystery as to how exactly it extracted data when the Doppler = spread was many times the shift on hf and as to why time and a = list of call signs was so important, when all the other data modes = , synchronised from the recovered signal . VW emission software = uses similar concepts =20 Yes your right , correlation , deep search , Dynamic , Ooop's , = Call it what you like, 'has' to know what is in the noise , so = it can look for the pattern. Dynamic is provided in the Opera = system , 'only' for the 477 and 136 bands only , as a second = pass , low level detector, set at ~ -5 / - 6 dB lower . =20 As the name implies , the system is dynamically engaged , and the = out put from the two systems are segregated , one being the Opera = data decode , with frequency , s/n and % fade . the other is = stamped , 'Deep search' with s/n and frequency. however , as you = note , other systems , fail to make the distinction , or provide a = solution to the problem. [ is it a problem ?VW sold may cars ] As Opera is not time locked , has no need , the start times of = Tx stations are 'random' so the simple solution to test if a = dynamic detection is real or false , is compare the RX time = stamp. By elapse time from a Opera decode + frequency=20 By compare to other Dynamic detections + frequency=20 Manually from TX beacon ,=20 The issue remains unaddressed in the other systems , compared to = the random pixilated out put from the traditional 'QRSS' 'part' = call sign guessing game , Dynamic provides a robust reliable = inaction of low s/n detection and is listed in ADIF . The system will work with U3/PIC keyed TX and RX linked to stand = alone PC , to achieve the full range of features , when using the = Dynamic low s/n spots , at the very least the Rx PC needs to be = linked to the WWW , to both upload your local spot , so others = are able to use the time stamp and receive the output from your = own and other users via the 'system' , with the '??' check or not = .... Its true, the beacon will plot the path between two stations , = but for most of the 477/136 stations the s/n levels are so low, = its not possible to 'hear' the other for a live qso , = opportunities exist for 477 , but 136 levels are generally well = below normal CW or data mode's, I worked V01NA from GB4FPR with = 60 watts in live CW on 502 k , but may be the 750 ft long wire = over the sea helped , : ) This was from the home qth , with 40 x 60 ft inv L and 250 watts = - possibly 20 dB short of CW qso level .. https://rosmodem.wordpress.com/2011/02/14/the-blue-ribbon-fastest-live-da= ta-to-cross-the-atlantic/ May be Luis can get JRos to put the data mode back in the ROS = package =20 73-Graham G0NBD =20 From: Fausto Coletti=20 Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 9:57 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR Hi Graham and all,=20 I do not know if it is possible and I do not know if Opera use the same = decoding sistem of JT65 but=20 for you it is possible that a ham receive some qsl card for 144 MHz EME = qso in JT65 when in his life=20 he never made a QSO via EME in 144 MHz.=20 Permit me some doubt about these "deep search" systems.=20 It seems very similar to those that make QSOs with callbbok.=20 As you can see I do not like the digital modes because I want to be a = fun to make a QSO and not my computer.=20 A digital QSO is a little how to send an SMS to a pretty girl instead of = taking her out to dinner.=20 Ok for the importance of automated systems for understanding the = propagation but when it is determined=20 that for a direction it is possible a QSO with traditional systems why = do not make a real QSO?=20 Every day when I read the email I see dozens and dozens of WSPR reports, = dozens and dozens of OPERA reports...=20 I rarely see a report of a real QSO,dozens and dozens of computers that = work all night while operators are sleeping.=20 Maybe I'm a purist as says Luis but honestly the satisfaction of a CW = QSO made by me and my key between the fingers,=20 although I am a average operator, is unmatched.=20 Maybe I'll never make a MF QSO with the US or Australia but I think that = if on the other side there is a well-equipped=20 station is not impossible.=20 Take the example of EA5DOM, yesterday for the first time used the CW on = 630m, does not seem to have had many=20 difficulties to make QSOs at distances similar to the WSPR reports that = has received so far.=20 Please forgive me, but this morning I woke up so ...=20 73, Fausto IK4NMF=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 7:48 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR ''Not considered "real" decodes by the purists and so, garbaje = qualifyed'' So the belief structure is . ''Its possible for two stations to randomly detect the same = station call sign at exactly the same time'' =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01D11EDC.AE5FFE20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23588"> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: = 15px" dir=3Dltr=20 id=3DMailContainerBody leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0 bgColor=3D#ffffff=20 CanvasTabStop=3D"true" name=3D"Compose message area"> <DIV>Hi Fausto</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, for a long time the = minimal =20 frequency shift in wspr was a mystery as = to =20 how exactly it extracted data when the =20 Doppler spread was many times the shift on = hf and=20 as to why time and a list of call = signs was=20 so important, when all the other data modes ,=20 synchronised from the recovered signal . = VW =20 emission software uses similar concepts </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes your right , correlation , deep search = , =20 Dynamic , Ooop's , Call it what you = like,=20 'has' to know what is in the noise , = so =20 it can look for the pattern. Dynamic is = provided =20 in the Opera system , <STRONG>'only' </STRONG>for the =20 477 and 136 bands only , as a = second =20 pass , low level detector, set at ~ -5 / - 6 dB=20 lower . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As the name implies , the system is = dynamically =20 engaged , and the out put from the two = systems=20 are segregated , one being the Opera data decode = , =20 with frequency , s/n and % fade . the other = is =20 stamped , 'Deep search' with s/n and frequency. = however , as=20 you note , other systems , fail to make = the =20 distinction , or provide a solution to the = problem. [ is=20 it a problem ?VW sold may cars ]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As Opera is not time locked , has no = need=20 , the start times of Tx stations = are =20 'random' so the simple solution = to =20 test if a dynamic detection is real = or false=20 , is compare the RX time stamp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By elapse time from a Opera decode = + =20 frequency </DIV> <DIV>By compare to other Dynamic detections + = frequency=20 </DIV> <DIV>Manually from TX beacon , </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> The <STRONG> issue remains unaddressed in = the =20 other systems</STRONG> , compared to the random pixilated = out=20 put from the traditional 'QRSS' 'part' = call =20 sign guessing game , Dynamic provides a robust=20 reliable inaction of low s/n detection and = is =20 listed in ADIF .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The system will work with U3/PIC = keyed =20 TX and RX linked to stand alone PC , to achieve=20 the full range of features , when using the =20 Dynamic low s/n spots , at the very least the Rx = PC=20 needs to be linked to the WWW , to both = upload=20 your local spot , so others are able to = use=20 the time stamp and receive the = output from=20 your own and other users via the = 'system' ,=20 with the '??' check or not ....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its true, the beacon will plot the path =20 between two stations , but for most of = the =20 477/136 stations the s/n levels are so = low, =20 its not possible to 'hear' the other = for a live qso , opportunities exist =20 for 477 , but 136 levels are generally = well =20 below normal CW or data mode's, I worked = V01NA=20 from GB4FPR with 60 watts in live CW on = 502 k ,=20 but may be the 750 ft long wire over the = sea =20 helped , : )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This was from the home qth , with 40 x 60 = ft inv=20 L and 250 watts - possibly 20 dB = short=20 of CW qso level ..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A=20 title=3D"https://rosmodem.wordpress.com/2011/02/14/the-blue-ribbon-fastes= t-live-data-to-cross-the-atlantic/ CTRL + Click to follow link"=20 href=3D"https://rosmodem.wordpress.com/2011/02/14/the-blue-ribbon-fastest= -live-data-to-cross-the-atlantic/">https://rosmodem.wordpress.com/2011/02= /14/the-blue-ribbon-fastest-live-data-to-cross-the-atlantic/</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> May be Luis can get JRos to put = the data mode back in the ROS = package </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>73-Graham</DIV> <DIV>G0NBD</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Tahoma"> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5"> <DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20 title=3D"mailto:faustocoletti@alice.it CTRL + Click to follow link"=20 href=3D"mailto:faustocoletti@alice.it">Fausto Coletti</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 14, 2015 9:57 AM</DIV> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org CTRL + Click to follow = link"=20 href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: LF: RE: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR</DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Hi Graham and all, </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I do not know if it is possible and I = do not know=20 if Opera use the same decoding sistem of JT65 but </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>for you it is possible that a ham = receive some qsl=20 card for 144 MHz EME qso in JT65 <SPAN class=3Dhps>when</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>in=20 his life</SPAN> </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps>he never</SPAN> = <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>made a</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>QSO</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>via</SPAN> <SPAN class=3D"hps alt-edited">EME</SPAN> = <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>in</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>144</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>MHz.=20 </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN = class=3Dhps></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D"hps alt-edited">Permit me</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>some=20 doubt</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>about these</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>"deep</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>search</SPAN><SPAN>" systems. = </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN = class=3Dhps>It=20 seems very</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>similar to</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>those that=20 make</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>QSOs</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>with</SPAN> = <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>callbbok. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><FONT face=3DArial><FONT = size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>As you can see</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>I do not like</SPAN> = <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>the</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>digital modes</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>because</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>I want to be</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>a</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>fun</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>to</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>make a</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>QSO</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>and not=20 my</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>computer.=20 </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps>A</SPAN> digital <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>QSO</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>is</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>a = little</SPAN>=20 <SPAN>how to send</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>an SMS</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>to</SPAN>=20 <SPAN class=3Dhps>a pretty girl</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>instead = of</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>taking her out</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>to dinner.=20 </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps>Ok for</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>the=20 importance</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>of</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>automated=20 systems</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>for</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>understanding=20 the</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>propagation</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>but = when it=20 is</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>determined=20 </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps>that</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>for a=20 direction</SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps> it is possible</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>a</SPAN>=20 <SPAN class=3Dhps>QSO</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>with traditional = systems</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>why do not</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>make a real</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>QSO</SPAN><SPAN>?=20 </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> = </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN = class=3Dhps>Every day</SPAN>=20 <SPAN class=3Dhps>when I read</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>the</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>email</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>I see</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>dozens=20 and</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>dozens of</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>WSPR = </SPAN><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>reports</SPAN><SPAN>,</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>dozens and = dozens</SPAN>=20 <SPAN class=3Dhps>of</SPAN> OPERA reports...=20 </FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps>I = rarely=20 see</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>a report</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>of = a</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>real</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>QSO</SPAN><SPAN>,</SPAN>dozens = and <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>dozens</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>of computers</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>that=20 work</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>all night while</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>operators are=20 sleeping. = </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><FONT face=3DArial><FONT = size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>Maybe I'm a</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>purist</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3D"hps alt-edited">as says</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>Luis b<SPAN = class=3Dhps>ut=20 honestly</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>the satisfaction of a</SPAN> CW <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>QSO</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>made by me and</SPAN><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps> my</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>key between the=20 fingers</SPAN><SPAN>,</SPAN>=20 </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></D= IV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><FONT = face=3DArial><FONT=20 size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps>although I am a</SPAN> = <SPAN=20 class=3D"hps alt-edited">average</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>operator</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>,</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>is = unmatched.=20 </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></S= PAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPA= N></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps>Maybe</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>I'll never=20 make</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>a</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>MF</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>QSO</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>with the US</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>or</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>Australia</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>but I=20 think</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>that if</SPAN> on the <SPAN = class=3Dalt-edited>other=20 side</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>there is a</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>well-equipped</SPAN>=20 </FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></S= PAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps>station</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>is=20 not</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>impossible</SPAN><SPAN>.=20 </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></S= PAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN= ></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps>Take the example</SPAN> = <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>of</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>EA5DOM</SPAN><SPAN>,</SPAN> = <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>yesterday</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>for the first time</SPAN> = <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>used the</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>CW</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>on</SPAN>=20 <SPAN class=3Dhps>630m</SPAN><SPAN>,</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>does not = seem</SPAN>=20 <SPAN class=3Dhps>to have had</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>many=20 </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></S= PAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps>difficulties</SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>to</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>make</SPAN> <SPAN = class=3Dhps>QSOs</SPAN>=20 <SPAN class=3Dhps>at distances</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>similar</SPAN> = <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>to the <SPAN class=3Dhps>WSPR = reports</SPAN></SPAN> <SPAN=20 class=3Dhps>that</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>has received so = far</SPAN><SPAN>.=20 </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></S= PAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT=20 size=3D2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></= SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3D"hps = alt-edited">Please=20 forgive me</SPAN><SPAN>, but this morning</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>I = woke=20 up</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>so</SPAN> <SPAN class=3Dhps>...=20 </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></S= PAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPA= N></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN = class=3Dhps><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN class=3Dhps><SPAN class=3Dhps>73, Fausto = IK4NMF=20 </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></S= PAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN=20 class=3Dhps></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; = PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20 dir=3Dltr> <DIV=20 style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dg8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk=20 href=3D"mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk">Graham</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Drsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 = href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 13, 2015 = 7:48=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: LF: RE: Re: FR5ZX = on MF=20 WSPR</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>''Not considered "real" decodes by = the purists=20 and so, garbaje qualifyed''</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>So the belief = structure =20 is .</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000> ''Its possible = for two =20 stations to randomly detect the same =20 station call sign at exactly the =20 same time'' </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20 size=3D4><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01D11EDC.AE5FFE20--