Return-Path: Received: from rly-ma05.mx.aol.com (rly-ma05.mail.aol.com [172.20.116.49]) by air-ma03.mail.aol.com (v123.3) with ESMTP id MAILINMA034-8ae49b42ee85f; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:48:02 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-ma05.mx.aol.com (v123.3) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMA058-8ae49b42ee85f; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:47:38 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LgPu4-0002MC-Le for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:47:20 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LgPu3-0002M3-Ej for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:47:19 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.151] helo=smtp6.freeserve.com) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LgPu1-0002mm-Ky for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:47:19 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3532.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id B5A371C00082 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 2009 21:47:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.31.236]) by mwinf3532.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 932DD1C00081 for ; Sun, 8 Mar 2009 21:47:10 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20090308204710603.932DD1C00081@mwinf3532.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <09E4F4FB066B4A5993583B221520D530@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <28FA0F184B25444F8BA2F1EC5FC42C04@AGB> In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 20:47:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8064.206 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8064.206 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working ! Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C9A02F.0CED86D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C9A02F.0CED86D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andy,=20 Looks like I have a signal 6/10 db over the noise during the day from 1200= slow rise from 1500 peak at 1800 , dip at 1700 and + 23 dB at 2015 .. s= eems to be a 1 hour qsb cycle as well=20 I think Gary is set up also for 24 monitor period ... Im seeing signal lev= els recorded that are not showing on spec lab ..=20 Q, do you have some details of the beacon, power , erp, or web links I c= an add to the info page ?=20 Tnx- G .. =20 From: Andy Talbot=20 Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 6:26 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working ! It is no trouble to continue the transmission. I have set up the equipment=20= in the garage where it does not get in the way of other shack activites, and= won't do too much damage if the euipment blows up! So I can leave it runni= ng for a few weeks unless the antenna is needed for other purposes.. Andy G4JNT www.g4jnt.com 2009/3/8 Beckmann, Gerhard Hi Graham, Thank you for your statement! Well actually, especially Scattergram or equal measurement methods would b= e of interest regarding the aspect of signal path monitoring. (direct wave /= sky wave via cross correlation of pulse delay values). However, the aspect of interferences by using 500us pulses has to be taken= into consideration but may be there are coming up suitable solution by the=20= LF-group.=20 Another method of monitoring the signal path on 500 kHz could possibly per= formed by using the =93PSK Sounder=94 software from ZL2AFP. And what I saw o= n a first glance it should be usable for transmission and reception in order= to monitor the signal path situation. By the way:=20 Do you know if Andy is continuing the Multi-function beaconing on 503.7 kH= z? In this case I would try long term signal monitoring by GB3RAL.exe and PSK= message decoding within the next evening sessions. vy 73 de Gerhard / DK6NI =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org] Im Auftrag von Graham Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. M=E4rz 2009 15:36=20 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working !=20 Hi, Grerhard, Andy's post about the new beacon came out of the blue, (as is the signal= hihi), Working on this, I've simply added a page to the uk500khz news gro= up and posted links about to generate some interest and make sure the beaco= n details are known to hams and swl's out side this reflector ..=20 The only thing that occurs to me is that there is a possibility for recep= tion reports to be directed to the 5 meg group , I note that the graph gen= erator by G4IRX requests your call and locator before processing the file=20= and presenting you with a plot. so I will see if anything can be done to pr= event this , the data format is of course distorted by having only one activ= e beacon.. so it will show up .. but may as yet be unexpected ...! I note from previous email that the pulse aspect of the beacon is require= d for precise measurements, I think that may be possible to set up a 'experi= ment' but the aspect of interference to other users may be significant, An= dy has referred to the concept of 'phase reversal' in a continues carrier sy= stem (or medium pulse ?) that would perhaps be a acceptable mode of modulati= on, weather it could be transmitted by a 'normal' transmitter im note sure ,= but its worth noting that activities on 500, to date are not 'funded' as s= uch and time and capital out lay are part of the 'hobby' and such hardware r= equirements and software re-writes are beyond many of the active stations.=20= but perhaps as interest spreads .. things may change ..?=20 Tnx-=20 Graham G0NBD IO83LK From: Beckmann, Gerhard=20 Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:06 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: 'Robert Hemesley'=20 Subject: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working ! Hello Graham, Hello Andy,=20 reading about your activities concerning Multi-function beacon I tried yes= terday evening to catch your signals, but unfortunately with no results copy= ing your sig. May be condx were not good enough. Moreover I had some bad ma= nmade QRM from TV and PC. As Rob Hemesley told you I am active in 5-MHz-beaco- monitoring spec= ially concerning scattergram monitoring in order to analyse signal path sit= uation (direct wave / sky wave behaviour). But I am running both analysis software, GB3RAL.exe and Scattergram.= exe and it would not be any problem to modify the internal PC-clock speciall= y regarding GB3RAL.exe in order to analyse the long term signal level of you= r Multi-function beacon. So I will try to continue monitoring your Multi-fun= ction beacon hopefully that condx will be better in the next evening session= s (hi). If there will be Scattergram acties in future I certainly need some=20= more dB signal level, but it would be very interesting to investigate the si= gnal path situation. Of course, this is more interesting for those participants who are l= ocated in a distance range between 150 and 300 km in order to monitor the sl= ide crossover from direct wave to sky wave signal path.=20 However, thank you very much for implementation of your very intere= sting Multi-function beacon project and I will keep on running my monitoring= activities and will inform you in any case about further results. vy 73 and a lot of success by running Multi-function beacons, I will be=20= =93on the qui vive=94 !!! de Gerhard / DK6NI (JN59LN) By the way:=20 Dial frequency 505.2 kHz, is that o.k.? (because GB3RAL.exe is decoding wi= th 1500 Hz too). For BPSK31-decoding I am using DigiPan Vers.2.0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org] Im Auftrag von Graham Gesendet: Samstag, 7. M=E4rz 2009 23:46 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working ! So far so good .. quite a step up in signal round 2100 hrs =20 no frequency decode before then , 15 db over noise at 2130 but a trend showing=20 about 1 hour slow qsb=20 any other reports ? G ..=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1988 - Release Date: 03/06/09=20= 19:17:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release Date: 03/07/09 18= :43:00 ------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C9A02F.0CED86D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Andy,
 
Looks like I have a signal 6/10 db over the=  =20 noise during the  day from 1200  slow rise from 1500  peak at= =20 1800 , dip at 1700  and  + 23 dB at 2015 .. seems to  be a 1=20= hour=20 qsb cycle as well
 
I think Gary is set up  also for = 24=20 monitor period ... Im seeing signal levels recorded that are not  showi= ng=20 on spec lab ..
 
Q, do you  have some details of the&nb= sp;=20 beacon,  power , erp, or  web links I can add to  the in= fo=20 page ?
 
Tnx- G ..  
 

Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working= =20 !

It is no trouble to continue the transmission.  I have set up the=20 equipment in the garage where it does not get in the way of other shack=20 activites, and won't do too much damage if the euipment blows up!  So I= can=20 leave it running for a few weeks unless the antenna is needed for other=20 purposes..

Andy  G4JNT
= www.g4jnt.com


2009/3/8 Beckmann, Gerhard <beckmann.erlangen@freenet.= de>

Hi=20 Graham,

 

Thank you=20 for your statement!

Well=20 actually, especially Scattergram or equal measurement methods would be of=20 interest regarding the aspect of signal path monitoring. (direct wave / sk= y=20 wave via cross correlation of pulse delay values).

However,=20 the aspect of interferences by using 500us pulses has to be taken into=20 consideration but may be there are coming up suitable solution by the=20 LF-group.

Another=20 method of monitoring the signal path on 500 kHz could possibly performed b= y=20 using the =93PSK Sounder=94 software from ZL2AFP. And what I saw on a firs= t glance=20 it should be usable for transmission and reception in order to monitor the= =20 signal path situation.

 

By the=20 way:

Do you=20 know if Andy is continuing the Multi-function beaconing on 503.7=20 kHz?

In this=20 case I would try long term signal monitoring by GB3RAL.exe and PSK message= =20 decoding within the next evening sessions.

 

vy 73 de=20 Gerhard / DK6NI

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

 

 

Von: o= wner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] Im Auftrag von <= /B>Graham
Gesendet: S= onntag, 8. M=E4rz 2009 15:36=20


An: rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: Re: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi-function=20 beacon ... Its working !=20

 

Hi,=20 Grerhard,

 

Andy's post about the  new=20 beacon came out of the  blue, (as is the signal hihi), Working on thi= s,=20  I've simply added a page to the  uk500khz news group and posted= =20 links about to  generate some interest and make sure the=20 beacon details are known to hams and swl's out side this reflector ..= =20

 

The only thing that occurs=20 to  me is that there is a possibility for reception reports to be&nbs= p;=20 directed to the 5 meg group , I note that the  graph generator by=20 G4IRX  requests your call and locator  before processing the fil= e=20 and presenting you with a plot. so I will see if anything can be done to&n= bsp;=20 prevent this , the data format is of course distorted by having only one=20 active beacon.. so it will show up .. but may as yet be unexpected=20 ...!

 

I=20 note from previous email that the pulse aspect of the  beacon is requ= ired=20 for precise measurements, I think that may be possible to set up a=20 'experiment'  but the aspect of interference to  other users may= be=20 significant, Andy has referred to the concept of 'phase reversal' in a=20 continues carrier system (or medium pulse ?) that would perhaps be a=20 acceptable mode of modulation, weather it could be transmitted by a 'norma= l'=20 transmitter im note sure , but its worth noting that activities on 500, to= =20 date  are not 'funded' as such and time and capital out lay are part=20= of=20 the 'hobby' and such hardware requirements  and software re-writes ar= e=20 beyond many of the active stations. but perhaps as interest spreads .. thi= ngs=20 may change ..?

 

Tnx-

 

Graham

 

G0NBD

IO83LK

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From:<= /SPAN> Beckmann, Gerhard=20

Sent:<= /SPAN> Sunday,=20 March 08, 2009 11:06 AM

Subjec= t: LF: AW:=20 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working=20 !

 

Hello Graham, Hello Andy,

 

reading about your activities concerning Multi-fun= ction beacon I=20 tried yesterday evening to catch your signals, but unfortunately with no=20 results copying your sig. May be condx were not good enough.  Moreove= r I=20 had some bad manmade QRM from TV and PC.

 

      As Rob Hemesley tol= d you I am active=20 in 5-MHz-beaco- monitoring specially concerning  scattergram monitori= ng=20 in order to analyse signal path situation (direct wave / sky wave=20 behaviour).

      But I am running bo= th analysis=20 software, GB3RAL.exe and Scattergram.exe and it would not be any problem t= o=20 modify the internal PC-clock specially regarding GB3RAL.exe in order to=20 analyse the long term signal level of your Multi-function beacon. So I wil= l=20 try to continue monitoring your Multi-function beacon hopefully that condx= =20 will be better in the next evening sessions (hi).

      If there will be Sc= attergram acties=20 in future I certainly need some more dB signal level, but it would be very= =20 interesting to investigate the signal path situation.

      Of course, this is=20= more interesting=20 for those participants who are located in a distance range between 150 and= 300=20 km in order to monitor the slide crossover from direct wave to sky wave si= gnal=20 path.

       However, than= k you very much=20 for implementation of your very interesting Multi-function beacon project=20= and=20 I will keep on running my monitoring activities and will inform you in any= =20 case about further results.

 

vy 73 and a lot of success by running Multi-functi= on beacons, I=20 will be =93on the qui vive=94 !!!

 

de Gerhard  /  DK6NI  (JN59LN)

 

By the way:

Dial frequency 505.2 kHz, is that o.k.? (because G= B3RAL.exe is=20 decoding with 1500 Hz too).

For BPSK31-decoding I am using DigiPan Vers.2.0

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

 

 

Von: o= wner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] Im Auftrag von <= /B>Graham
Gesendet: S= amstag, 7. M=E4rz 2009=20 23:46
An: rsgb_lf_group@b= lacksheep.org
Betreff: LF: 503.7 Multi-function beacon=20 ... Its working !

 

So far so good .. quite a step up=20 in signal round 2100 hrs 

no frequency decode before then ,=20 15 db over noise at 2130

 

but a trend showing=20

about  1 hour slow qsb=20

 

any other reports=20 ?

 

G=20 ..

 


No=20 virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.237=20 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1988 - Release Date: 03/06/09=20 19:17:00



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release D= ate:=20 03/07/09 18:43:00
------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C9A02F.0CED86D0--