Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id s94Kw7qo001378 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2014 22:58:07 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1XaWM3-0005yY-9d for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2014 21:55:03 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1XaWM2-0005yP-UY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2014 21:55:02 +0100 Received: from omr-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.222.129]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1XaWM0-0007wb-6d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Oct 2014 21:55:01 +0100 Received: from mtaout-aag01.mx.aol.com (mtaout-aag01.mx.aol.com [172.26.126.77]) by omr-m08.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id CEB3A7000008F for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2014 16:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from White (unknown [95.91.239.181]) by mtaout-aag01.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id AE308380000A1 for ; Sat, 4 Oct 2014 16:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <08DC1F26A18146E4BEFD6E1B607E39E9@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <348B0BEC1F7B46E087035B672ECDF3C0@White> <54305D4C.2040004@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2014 22:54:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20140625; t=1412456097; bh=3v+Ec8fhuXaRAi7oVzeeNKebuClYTtfV864XuJzTRA4=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=wgj6OQJe/zqCMNxrx/bxWX/f70bk2SUnVJiosX89t6bErykhLQNCRrPrPCez6nwxe KYcdAPoEq06kuz3T1kuFnaUb7eLeW0sA421YdVjvSJXyJ0ZGHQj4fuYAZesF/dq51h tqPnDuOAZY4hDsw5U3vWnBU9HurgBKBNXxcGp+gE= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7e4d54305ea056ea X-AOL-IP: 95.91.239.181 X-Scan-Signature: 55db901127f87fafbf8ae301dac99c44 Subject: Re: LF: ZEVS RX ant question, now success - 60 Hz in Europe Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007B_01CFE026.394C3B30" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 646 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01CFE026.394C3B30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh we can do that ourselves... remember the European 50 Hz grid went = down to 49.99 every time you keyed up your PA ;-) 73, Markus=20 From: DK7FC=20 Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2014 10:49 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: ZEVS RX ant question, now success - 60 Hz in Europe Hi Markus,=20 Maybe we can ask them to key the signal in QRSS-180? Should be no = problem :-) 73, Stefan Am 04.10.2014 21:58, schrieb Markus Vester:=20 Attempting to resend... From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2014 1:18 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: ZEVS RX ant question, now success - 60 Hz in Europe Hi Wolf, Stefan, yes I also noticed a weak 60 Hz line during my ELF experiment, and it = is there in the accelerated wav files. Here are two spectrograms with = 15.3 mHz bin width: http://df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/ELF/elf_140903_1855-2055_60Hz_82Hz.png http://df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/ELF/elf_140904_0541-0741_60Hz_82Hz.png Unlike Zevs, 60 Hz seems to be more pronounced during 1855-2055 UT = recording, ie our evening when the Atlantic was still in daylight. It = was hardly visible in the morning, 0541-0741 UT. During the two evening hours, the 60 hz line drifted up and down by = about two pixels, 30 mHz. That frequency instability may actually be a = unique signature which can be used to exclude local origin, simply by = comparing simultaneous traces from two different receive sites. I think = there may even be an online log of American line frequency history, but = couldn't find it on the web - any hints from the group? Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: wolf_dl4yhf=20 Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2014 12:41 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: ZEVS RX ant question, now success Hi Stefan and all, you wrote: Yes, a good idea. I will try to catch it :-) But how do i know that = it is the US mains instead of a 60 Hz monitor? Is the 60 Hz from the = mains more stable? I guess the opposite: Similar to our Eu mains frequency, the US 60 Hz = signal "wanders around" very slowly, as the load changes, but in the = long run they also keep the frequency stable, nation-wide. Not sure = about the maximum excursion from the nominal frequency (I lost the notes = and screenshots years ago when a harddisk died) and how many mHz per = minute the frequency may drift. But you can see the weak 60 Hz trace in = Renato Romero's ZEVS spectrogram at http://www.vlf.it/zevs/zevs.htm 73, Wolf . ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01CFE026.394C3B30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh we can do that ourselves...=20 remember the European 50 Hz grid went down to 49.99 every = time=20 you keyed up your PA ;-)
 
73, Markus 

From: DK7FC
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2014 10:49 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: ZEVS RX ant question, now success - 60 Hz = in=20 Europe

Hi=20 Markus,

Maybe we can ask them to key the signal in QRSS-180? = Should be=20 no problem :-)

73, Stefan

Am 04.10.2014 21:58, schrieb = Markus=20 Vester:=20
Attempting to resend...
 
From: Markus = Vester=20
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2014 1:18 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: ZEVS RX ant question, now success - 60 Hz = in=20 Europe

Hi Wolf, Stefan,
 
yes I also noticed a weak 60 Hz line = during my=20 ELF experiment, and it is there in the accelerated wav files. Here are = two=20 spectrograms with 15.3 mHz bin width:
http://df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/ELF/elf_140903_1855= -2055_60Hz_82Hz.png
http://df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/ELF/elf_140904_0541= -0741_60Hz_82Hz.png
 
Unlike Zevs, 60 Hz seems to be = more=20 pronounced during 1855-2055 UT recording, ie our evening when the = Atlantic was=20 still in daylight. It was hardly visible in the morning, 0541-0741=20 UT.
 
During the two evening hours, the 60 = hz line=20 drifted up and down by about two pixels, 30 mHz. That frequency=20 instability may actually be a unique signature which can be used to = exclude=20 local origin, simply by comparing simultaneous traces from two = different=20 receive sites. I think there may even be an online log = of=20 American line frequency history, but couldn't find it on the web=20 - any hints from the group?
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 

From: wolf_dl4yhf
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2014 12:41 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: ZEVS RX ant question, now=20 success

Hi Stefan and all,

you = wrote:
  Yes,=20 a good idea. I will try to catch it :-) But how do i know that it is = the US=20 mains instead of a 60 Hz monitor? Is the 60 Hz from the mains more=20 stable?
I guess the opposite: Similar to our Eu mains = frequency, the=20 US 60 Hz signal "wanders around" very slowly, as the load changes, but = in the=20 long run they also keep the frequency stable, nation-wide. Not sure = about the=20 maximum excursion from the nominal frequency (I lost the notes and = screenshots=20 years ago when a harddisk died) and how many mHz per minute the = frequency may=20 drift. But you can see the weak 60 Hz trace in Renato Romero's ZEVS=20 spectrogram at

http://www.vlf.it/zevs/zevs.htm

73, =20 Wolf .

------=_NextPart_000_007B_01CFE026.394C3B30--