From: "James Cowburn" <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 09:19:30 +0100
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Subject: LF: RE: Re: UK NoVs
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Hi Jim

Thanks for this very useful analysis.   My expectations are currently a lot
more modest and if I can get a 9khz signal to yourself, Roger (XBM), Chris
(XIZ) and possibly with luck and a following wind out to 100km+ I will be
more than pleased with what will almost certainly be a standard G7NKS
compromise lash up.  

The chances of my wife authorizing a 150ft mast are zero, plus my new job
over in NI during the week will eat into my time.

For me the challenge is in "just doing it", I doubt I'll ever be a QRO T/A
station like Mal but a nice 60km contact would do me just fine

Thanks again for the analysis and fingers crossed that the Met Office are
kind to us

 
 
 
With best regards
 
 
Jim G7NKS
 
 
Dr. James Cowburn
E james.cowburn@virgin.net
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 10 September 2010 22:19
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: UK NoVs

Dear Jim, Mal, LF Group

G3KEV wrote...
> Jim
> Do you expect to reach me with this sort of erp? I am QRV when you are
> ready. I expect you to hear me with a few hundred watts

...As a feasibility study, one can make order-of-magnitude estimates of 
required ERP fairly easily. The noise level at 9kHz in quiet winter-time 
conditions at a reasonably quiet QTH during DK7FC's previous tests was 
roughly 8uV/m per sqrt(Hz) by my estimate. The distance between G3KEV and 
G7NKS is roughly 200km. If we assume G7NKS actually achieves 5uW ERP, field 
strength at G3KEV will be E = 7*sqrt(Perp) / d, around 80nV/m, assuming 
ground wave losses are neglegible. This is 40dB below the noise floor in 1Hz

bandwidth, so the RX bandwidth would have to be reduced to 100 microhertz to

get 0dB SNR, or say 50 uHz to get a few dB positive SNR. I think this would 
be feasible to do; it would require frequency stability of the order of 
parts in 10^9 at both TX and RX, so both Mal and Jim would have to make some

improvements!

So can Mal really expect to be "heard with a few hundred watts"? Mal is 
always a bit vague about his antenna, but often mentions 3 x 150m wires 
supported by a 100ft mast, and unless he has a whole collection of other 
100ft masts to support the other ends, one would assume this means sloping 
wires and an effective height in the region of 15m. Capacitive reactance at 
9kHz would be roughly 6 kilohms, allowing 3A or so of antenna current with a

reasonable voltage of 20kV. With a relatively big antenna like this, one 
would hope for a fairly low loss resistance, provided a very low-loss 
loading coil can be made. Let's optimistically assume 50ohms total loss 
resistance - to get 3A Iant, 450W TX power would be needed, which is 
stretching the "few hundred watts" a bit, but never mind. Radiation 
resistance at 9kHz would be 320 micro-ohms, and with Iant = 3A, ERP works 
out to about 5mW. This is comparable with the ERP from DK7FC's VLF 
experiments. 200km away at G7NKS, field strength would be about 2.5uV/m. I 
reckon if you actually want an audible CW signal, it has to be above 0dB SNR

in a normal CW filter bandwidth, say 250Hz. The band noise in 250Hz would be

about 130uV/m, so 2.5uV/m is 34dB below an audible signal level. So even 
though G3KEV might have an ERP 1000 times greater as an optimistic estimate,

it would still be far too weak to be actually heard at G7NKS.  QRSS30 should

be quite easy, though.

So, the verdict is that it is probably feasible for G7NKS to produce a 
detectable 9kHz signal over a distance of a few hundred km, but extreme 
narrow bandwidths, integrating periods of several hours and high frequency 
stability would be needed to do it. It should be possible for Mal to produce

a 9kHz signal that can be detected at a similar range using techniques 
familiar from LF amateur radio, but it certainly won't be audible at that 
distance.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU