Delivered-To: daveyxm@virginmedia.com Received: by 10.50.203.68 with SMTP id ko4csp183407igc; Sat, 19 Apr 2014 18:12:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.63.236 with SMTP id j12mr22706414wjs.5.1397956356078; Sat, 19 Apr 2014 18:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com. [195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id cg4si1106092wib.11.2014.04.19.18.12.35 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 2014 18:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: none (google.com: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass header.i=@comcast.net Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1WbfjX-0005ZH-Vg for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 01:35:47 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1WbfjW-0005Z8-QZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 01:35:46 +0100 Received: from qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.228]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WbfjT-0002DF-BW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 01:35:45 +0100 Received: from omta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.71]) by qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id s0Yz1n0021Y3wxoAF0bPmD; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 00:35:23 +0000 Received: from Owner ([166.137.182.106]) by omta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id s0bK1n0092J8eo68b0bRol; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 00:35:35 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=comcast.net Result=Signature OK From: "hvanesce" To: References: <5350FC04.9050301@psk31.plus.com> <53514E03.5090208@gmail.com> <53516582.8020502@psk31.plus.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 17:34:59 -0700 Message-ID: <045101cf5c30$6eeff940$4ccfebc0$@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQMJRQhH0kHgbLnb6f+/CkRUQWO/+AHidEZLAeDf33MB52pEc5h4dRFA Content-Language: en-us DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1397954123; bh=n0OP+AD/9NA9Wb7Ez31YASA8Rp0fc5R5W7NNEGbSGAU=; h=Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=VlSAok+Vv1BxCR9MfzaO7gR9Jvn8mEpMv3bSwyivGSI36SHCfMHrI1uJpoYKISbac fRv77SyXv5I9MkrgfA7ymhEK+nG/6u2srioqOoT6qTkZmVTCcdZMRt0+puFh0fOAf1 atfdoyqvgEhGag36fumWc3Q9yd1FtFZ8VRXZ9xto7Xm4jiQlL8afrRwLz6Tc31HxKg 0qpxoTsy5JBb8ZCYnGs2NoRO8mHM6EilKUUDnVtsX500FpbhCHeBYePT+mLxXl0h+D ulYULW/PC0Xw+zWBDlOzsoyd3HwBg5q+1/1nu/1fRu4JtcsL4L09rwwPRTt1uPoRUw MuNMpSBALW/Cw== X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Harry, I found your paper most interesting, including two of your observations in particular (I’ll mention the two observations in a separate message). I’m interested in VLF phenomenology for its own sake, and for its potential merit in DX. Your observations address some aspects of the near field regarding which useful data is scarce, and which I think could ultimately assist amateur VLF communications (wherein antennas are electrically small, and particularly influenced by near-field characteristics). [...] Content analysis details: (-0.6 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [76.96.27.228 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (hvanesce[at]comcast.net) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.7 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: de74c1b05e8d69de301f516709bc3720 Subject: RE: LF: Ground Tests at 8.9KHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0452_01CF5BF5.C29232B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0452_01CF5BF5.C29232B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Harry, =20 I found your paper most interesting, including two of your observations = in particular (I=E2=80=99ll mention the two observations in a separate = message). I=E2=80=99m interested in VLF phenomenology for its own sake, = and for its potential merit in DX. Your observations address some = aspects of the near field regarding which useful data is scarce, and = which I think could ultimately assist amateur VLF communications = (wherein antennas are electrically small, and particularly influenced by = near-field characteristics).=20 =20 I wonder if the following would interest you: =20 I ran a number of 8.9kHz tests at ~100W PA out, taking calibrated = signal-strength data at roughly logarithmically spaced TX-to-RX = distances from ~ 1m to ~ 12km. I used loop antennas for these tests, = with TX loop diameters from 1m to 70m, with horizontal and vertical = orientation of the TX loop axes*, and one buried TX loop; and many (x, = y, z) orientations of the RX loop antenna. I was unsuccessful in making = measurements at 20km and beyond, in part because my RX bandwidth was at = that time limited to ~10mHz min, and I did not employ impulse noise = cancellation. The interesting part: while my antennas and local = environment were considerably different from yours, I was surprised and = very interested when reading your report, to see some correspondence in = observations. =20 Would you be interested in the data from these tests? The data and notes = are handwritten, but I have always intended to capture in = Excel/Mathcad/Matlab form with tables and plots, and having seen your = observations, I=E2=80=99m particularly interested in making 3D plots of = the two characteristics to which I referred above, which include the = infrastructure measurements** and max-range measurements. =20 If you=E2=80=99re interested, I=E2=80=99d be happy to post the data and = plots next week (I=E2=80=99ll need to figure out how to post; a member = of this group sent info on that so I will search for it).=20 =20 Thanks also to Stefan and Eddie for facilitating the presentation and = discussion of Harry=E2=80=99s findings. =20 =20 * I did not orient the 70m diameter loop axis horizontally (i.e. I did = not orient the plane of the loop vertically), but I can orient it at = angles from vertical of up to ~ 45 degrees=20 ** For example, at RX locations near streets, I occasionally measured = the field angle and amplitude as a function of horizontal and vertical = distance from the curb. Streets ranged from suburban to desert-mountain, = and I was quite interested to see some correspondence between our = measurements. =20 =20 73, Jim AA5BW =20 =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Harry Woodhouse Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 1:40 AM To: rsgb_lf_group Subject: Re: LF: Ground Tests at 8.9KHz =20 Hi Stefan, Many thanks for your comments. Harry G3MFW =20 On 18 April 2014 18:48, g3zjo wrote: On 18/04/2014 17:08, DK7FC wrote: Thanks to Harry and you for sharing the link to this most intersting = experiments. I've been reading it carefully. It motivates myselfe to = think a bit more about VLF experiments :-) Please forward him my compliments if the other adress is not his. =20 Hi Stefan I am glad you appreciated the link and Harry's work. He will see your = comments as he is a member of this Group. My involvement came in after I suggested to Harry that he popped his = write up on the cloud, he asked me to handle that as he was happier = knocking rods into the ground.:-) 73 Eddie =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0452_01CF5BF5.C29232B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Harry,

 

I found your paper most interesting, including two of your = observations in particular (I=E2=80=99ll mention the two observations in = a separate message). I=E2=80=99m interested in VLF phenomenology for its = own sake, and for its potential merit in DX. Your observations address = some aspects of the near field regarding which useful data is scarce, = and which I think could ultimately assist amateur VLF communications = (wherein antennas are electrically small, and particularly influenced by = near-field characteristics).

 

I wonder if the following would interest you:

 

I ran a number of 8.9kHz tests at ~100W PA out, taking calibrated = signal-strength data at roughly logarithmically spaced TX-to-RX = distances from ~ 1m to ~ 12km. I used loop antennas for these tests, = with TX loop diameters from 1m to 70m, with horizontal and vertical = orientation of the TX loop axes*, and one buried TX loop; and many (x, = y, z) orientations of the RX loop antenna. I was unsuccessful in making = measurements at 20km and beyond, in part because my RX bandwidth was at = that time limited to ~10mHz min, and I did not employ impulse noise = cancellation. The interesting part: while my antennas and local = environment were considerably different from yours, I was surprised and = very interested when reading your report, to see some correspondence in = observations.

 

Would you be interested in the data from these tests? The data and = notes are handwritten, but I have always intended to capture in = Excel/Mathcad/Matlab form with tables and plots, and having seen your = observations, I=E2=80=99m particularly interested in making 3D plots of = the two characteristics to which I referred above, which include the = infrastructure measurements** and max-range = measurements.

 

If you=E2=80=99re interested, I=E2=80=99d be happy to post the data = and plots next week (I=E2=80=99ll need to figure out how to post; a = member of this group sent info on that so I will search for it). =

 

Thanks also to Stefan and Eddie for facilitating the presentation and = discussion of Harry=E2=80=99s findings. =C2=A0

 

* I did not orient the 70m diameter loop axis horizontally (i.e. I = did not orient the plane of the loop vertically), but I can orient it at = angles from vertical of up to ~ 45 degrees

** For example, at RX locations near streets, I occasionally measured = the field angle and amplitude as a function of horizontal and vertical = distance from the curb. Streets ranged from suburban to desert-mountain, = and I was quite interested to see some correspondence between our = measurements. =C2=A0=C2=A0

 

73, Jim AA5BW

 

 

From:= = owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Harry = Woodhouse
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 1:40 AM
To: = rsgb_lf_group
Subject: Re: LF: Ground Tests at = 8.9KHz

 

Hi = Stefan,

       =      Many thanks for your = comments.

         &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;  Harry G3MFW

 

On 18 April 2014 18:48, g3zjo <g3zjo@psk31.plus.com> = wrote:

On 18/04/2014 17:08, = DK7FC wrote:

Thanks to Harry and you = for sharing the link to this most intersting experiments. I've been = reading it carefully. It motivates myselfe to think a bit more about VLF = experiments :-)
Please forward him my compliments if the other adress = is not his.

 

Hi Stefan

I am glad you = appreciated the link and Harry's work. He will see your comments as he = is a member of this Group.

My involvement came in after I = suggested to Harry that he popped his write up on the cloud, he asked me = to handle that as he was happier knocking rods into the = ground.:-)

73 Eddie

 

------=_NextPart_000_0452_01CF5BF5.C29232B0--