Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w6SJ2hhR004561 for ; Sat, 28 Jul 2018 21:02:44 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1fjUIU-0004Et-SJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2018 19:50:34 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1fjUI9-0004Ek-W7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2018 19:50:13 +0100 Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net ([2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1fjUI7-00080c-Ie for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2018 19:50:12 +0100 Received: from resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.116]) by resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id jU7pf8B08V6ASjUHzfhK5L; Sat, 28 Jul 2018 18:50:03 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=comcast.net Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1532803803; bh=h7kgD1Ee70GAfj8YHKHbLPQL7Ah/GL7tzgmL05gt0PM=; h=Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=OyDr2AowtDEeZSgljGn7PeUdoTxuFX5Yqb2deAPI9nZEwHAodcUinyKEgta2qK2T/ jIt70GdPXq0NBDhbkEwHEPOyyD+WLxeQIAoWwNfTQUwAMk0wvZqe2kmzhuNdU9/VwL 60r7Bu9mm62lDJk4Wt6+2+RsSgHXzzgXkcel8CYT4n/ovJLctL+TApo0dBV4XC1lC0 BowiqDG4q48+3Vvnl/+m3xdJ/vOm76L1IFnptUsuiMVJOtpqG4vHDcNhIhNskM37y2 8L5WwNKksEeq4cQ94NxIvE8MVl2UmoSj+NH/y3UFUKdaMKF3jliJouVzRIjavr/R3R 7jLkK5PjzdBtA== Received: from Owner ([IPv6:2601:140:8500:7f9f:78f6:dd:b547:d008]) by resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id jUHwfYh4MTGiGjUHxfuD6K; Sat, 28 Jul 2018 18:50:02 +0000 From: To: References: <5B54CCCB.6060903@posteo.de> <5B59E687.5030805@posteo.de> <5B5C3ABF.3030809@posteo.de> <5B5C4A63.3040504@posteo.de> In-Reply-To: <5B5C4A63.3040504@posteo.de> Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 14:43:06 -0400 Message-ID: <044301d426a3$c92a8a00$5b7f9e00$@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGK+X/mQMWyuRdjsqX4eNmU0jy1AgH6HXhZAdBODi4BxZXZlgFXaCBDpQAT+RA= Content-Language: en-us X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfBdSZBZEU+ASykj6/r5xX30Xqupdiol++SX+HQGF4wkm8LcXDJNNVxMLJbYA8HaWIEyI1jplYkRcsJAy4kDE2o/jpujdJ0UUJ6taYyu4RRsJOqfZ5iv6 LBlTUVy6YTLwZ1YplPhjpIgopJHjS5drP2gDjfK4jdxKILO+KBGBGycrMxBwjIs7uOHo8taxs8PVd8wCff3lIzpvVhl6Rxsc8kAxTNc/EGvttmPSx/gHQU1U X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan, Congratulations on new “TX earth antenna league” far-field records including 5170 Hz. Quite exciting, and impressive resistance values. 73, [...] Content analysis details: (-0.4 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:43 listed in] [list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (hvanesce[at]comcast.net) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID BODY: Test for Invalidly Named or Formatted Colors in HTML 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.3 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 8c16534bff9e7be1d3e99d60b0efbf3e Subject: RE: VLF: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!?? NOW on the air... Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0444_01D42682.4218EA00" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, NO_REAL_NAME,PLING_QUERY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0444_01D42682.4218EA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan, =20 Congratulations on new =E2=80=9CTX earth antenna league=E2=80=9D = far-field records including 5170 Hz. Quite exciting, and impressive = resistance values. =20 73, =20 Jim AA5BW =20 =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of DK7FC Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 6:50 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: VLF: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!?? NOW on = the air... =20 Update: Since 10:13 UTC i'm TXing on 5170 Hz. The antenna current is 556 = mA and the phase looks a bit less inductive but still inductive. Despite = beeing in the center of the Pf=C3=A4lzer Wald, i have mobile internet = access and so i reached my Linux PC recording the VLF stream (both loop = antennas). Using vlfrx-tools i managed to produce a spectrum peak of 17 = dB SNR after just 30 minutes!!!! (More later) So it is possible with = this ground loop TX antenna to transmit on 5170 Hz and beeing detected = in about 55 km distance! :-) These are two new records for the TX = earth antenna league :-) I'm going to continue transmitting on 5170.000 Hz until 11:13 UTC, then = i'll do QSY to 2970.005 Hz which simply means i change the frequency in = SpecLabs signal generator driving my PA! :-) 73, Stefan Am 28.07.2018 11:43, schrieb DK7FC:=20 Hi VLF, I'm sitting in my car while writing this email. I'm in JN39WI96GX and i = transmit on 8270.000 Hz with a GPS locked signal generator into an about = 450 m long earth antenna using two guide rails as the earth electrodes = on both ends. On each end there are 16 (18) massive T-T poles holding = the guide rail, providing a super good earth coupling. I measured that = they are connected to each other.=20 The transmitter is on the air since 9:08 UTC running 550 mA with just 75 = W DC inout power into my hand warm lossy linear mode VLF PA!=20 I'm amazed about the low losses! At DC i got 447 mA at 50.9 V. The wire = is 0.4 mm diameter so it has 63 Ohm. That means the ground loss is just = 50 Ohm !!!! Amazing! And i have no efforts to build up a ground = connection here, i just need to connect the wire. Since the wire losses = are higher than the ground losses, i can get maybe 2 dB more signal when = buying some better wire. I already found a source that offers 0.75 mm^2 = 100 m loudspeaker cable (i.e. 200m wire)for just 13 EUR.... BTW i even have an ugly old scope here which is battery powered. I can = see that the phase of voltage and current is slightly inductive, maybe = 30 deg or so. So i could series resonate the antenna with some C. This = is for the next experiment... The signal becomes visible on my grabber now, in 424 uHz and also some = bright pixels in the 3.8 mHz window. I'm going to stop the carrier at 10:08 UTC, after 1 hour. Then i'll = continue on 5.17 kHz!=20 BTW the antenna , if it works like a real loop, is beaming directly to = Paul Nicholson ;-) 73, Stefan Am 26.07.2018 17:19, schrieb DK7FC:=20 ...i just searched in the old emails and also on G3XBM's blog and found = this entry: = https://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/2010/09/vlf-dx-transmission-with-earth.htm= l So that is the best distance on a transmit earth antenna (or ground = loop) so far, at VLF, by amateurs.=20 I had a much lower earth resistance in mind but actually i just got 0.53 = A at 250 W RF power, so the losses were rather 890 Ohm! Will it be possible to make 55 km distance at 8.27 kHz, maybe in a lower = bandwidth like 424 uHz, with power levels in the range of 50 W only? 73, Stefan Am 22.07.2018 20:28, schrieb DK7FC:=20 Hi all,=20 During the weekend i am in the Pf=C3=A4lzer Wald again which is such a = nice place to be! I already installed a fixed E field antenna for = VLF/ULF reception in JN39XI06 = :-) Now i have the idea to use a guide rail (attachment!) as an electrode = for a earth electrode antenna! There is a perfect road which is not much = frequented and where no way is crossing so i could temporary install a = long wire on the ground between two of these guide rails. I would assume = they provide a good grounding. They are located on a relatively high = hill/mountain with stony ground. The mountain is very steep there and in = some distance, 200m deeper, there is a brook.. With some luck the ground losses can be near 200 Ohm? Maybe rather 300 = Ohm. I'm going to prepare things and plan to transmit for some time next = weekend. If the ground loop actually acts like a loop, the bearing = should be 135 deg, so it will be in a 45 deg angle towards my QTH where = my grabber is listening in 55 km distance. That's quite a good distance = for testing! I'd like to try LF and VLF, maybe ULF it all works well. A BTW the wire length will be 860 m! However there are two guide rails = in a shorther distance, about 450 m. I will try the shorter length = first, to get an impression of the loss resistance and to see if = something is visible at all :-) 73, Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_0444_01D42682.4218EA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Stefan,

 

Congratulations on new =E2=80=9CTX earth antenna league=E2=80=9D = far-field records including 5170 Hz. Quite exciting, and impressive = resistance values.

 

73,

 

Jim AA5BW =C2=A0=C2=A0

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of = DK7FC
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 6:50 AM
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: VLF: Earth antenna = transmissions on a guide rail?!?? NOW on the = air...

 

Update: = Since 10:13 UTC i'm TXing on 5170 Hz. The antenna current is 556 mA and = the phase looks a bit less inductive but still inductive. Despite beeing = in the center of the Pf=C3=A4lzer Wald, i have mobile internet access = and so i reached my Linux PC recording the VLF stream (both loop = antennas). Using vlfrx-tools i managed to produce a spectrum peak of 17 = dB SNR after just 30 minutes!!!! (More later) So it is possible with = this ground loop TX antenna to transmit on 5170 Hz and beeing detected = in about  55 km distance! :-)  These are two new records for = the TX earth antenna league :-)
I'm going to continue transmitting on = 5170.000 Hz until 11:13 UTC, then i'll do QSY to 2970.005 Hz which = simply means i change the frequency in SpecLabs signal generator driving = my PA! :-)

73, Stefan

Am 28.07.2018 11:43, schrieb DK7FC: =

Hi VLF,

I'm sitting in my car = while writing this email. I'm in JN39WI96GX and i transmit on 8270.000 = Hz with a GPS locked signal generator into an about 450 m long earth = antenna using two guide rails as the earth electrodes on both ends. On = each end there are 16 (18) massive T-T poles holding the guide rail, = providing a super good earth coupling. I measured that they are = connected to each other.
The transmitter is on the air since 9:08 = UTC running 550 mA with just 75 W DC inout power into my hand warm lossy = linear mode VLF PA!

I'm amazed about the low losses! At DC i got = 447 mA at 50.9 V. The wire is 0.4 mm diameter so it has 63 Ohm. That = means the ground loss is just 50 Ohm !!!! Amazing! And i have no efforts = to build up a ground connection here, i just need to connect the wire. = Since the wire losses are higher than the ground losses, i can get maybe = 2 dB more signal when buying some better wire. I already found a source = that offers 0.75 mm^2 100 m loudspeaker cable (i.e. 200m wire)for just = 13 EUR....

BTW i even have an ugly old scope here which is = battery powered. I can see that the phase of voltage and current is = slightly inductive, maybe 30 deg or so. So i could series resonate the = antenna with some C. This is for the next experiment...

The = signal becomes visible on my grabber now, in 424 uHz and also some = bright pixels in the 3.8 mHz window.

I'm going to stop the = carrier at 10:08 UTC, after 1 hour. Then i'll continue on 5.17 kHz! =
BTW the antenna , if it works like a real loop, is beaming directly = to Paul Nicholson ;-)

73, Stefan




Am 26.07.2018 = 17:19, schrieb DK7FC:

...i just = searched in the old emails and also on G3XBM's blog and found this = entry: https://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/2010/09/vlf-dx-transmission-wit= h-earth.html
So that is the best distance on a transmit earth = antenna (or ground loop) so far, at VLF, by amateurs.
I had a much = lower earth resistance in mind but actually i just got 0.53 A at 250 W = RF power, so the losses were rather 890 Ohm!
Will it be possible to = make 55 km distance at 8.27 kHz, maybe in a lower bandwidth like 424 = uHz, with power levels in the range of 50 W only?

73, = Stefan

Am 22.07.2018 20:28, schrieb DK7FC:

Hi all,

During the weekend i am in the = Pf=C3=A4lzer Wald again which is such a nice place to be! I already = installed a fixed E field antenna for VLF/ULF reception in JN39XI06 = :-)

Now i have the idea to use a guide rail (attachment!) as = an electrode for a earth electrode antenna! There is a perfect road = which is not much frequented and where no way is crossing so i could = temporary install a long wire on the ground between two of these guide = rails. I would assume they provide a good grounding. They are located on = a relatively high hill/mountain with stony ground. The mountain is very = steep there and in some distance, 200m deeper, there is a = brook..

With some luck the ground losses can be near 200 Ohm? = Maybe rather 300 Ohm. I'm going to prepare things and plan to transmit = for some time next weekend. If the ground loop actually acts like a = loop, the bearing should be 135 deg, so it will be in a 45 deg angle = towards my QTH where my grabber is listening in 55 km distance. That's = quite a good distance for testing! I'd like to try LF and VLF, maybe ULF = it all works well.

A BTW the wire length will be 860 m! However = there are two guide rails in a shorther distance, about 450 m. I will = try the shorter length first, to get an impression of the loss = resistance and to see if something is visible at all :-)

73, = Stefan

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