Delivered-To: daveyxm@virginmedia.com Received: by 10.50.237.98 with SMTP id vb2csp37682igc; Sun, 9 Mar 2014 00:49:11 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.194.175.202 with SMTP id cc10mr345948wjc.48.1394354950221; Sun, 09 Mar 2014 00:49:10 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com. [195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id p1si106969wix.60.2014.03.09.00.49.09 for ; Sun, 09 Mar 2014 00:49:10 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@comcast.net Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1WMZEZ-0002dg-Hy for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2014 08:37:23 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1WMZEY-0002dX-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2014 08:37:22 +0000 Received: from qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.64]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WMZES-0000UO-4n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2014 08:37:20 +0000 Received: from omta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.12]) by qmta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bLcE1n0010FhH24A7LdDDi; Sun, 09 Mar 2014 08:37:13 +0000 Received: from Owner ([166.137.182.142]) by omta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bLcs1n00534kqxi8ULcyRz; Sun, 09 Mar 2014 08:37:08 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=comcast.net Result=Signature OK From: "hvanesce" To: References: <2662DF5AA7FA416CBB09CDB90BBFF7B1@White> <016101cf39df$4f4c89a0$ede59ce0$@comcast.net>, <01dc01cf3a3f$86997bb0$93cc7310$@comcast.net>, <2FC5CAB271A6437CB35A5B100185CEDA@White> <025101cf3a52$e0925750$a1b705f0$@comcast.net> <7DB9DD5669FC4C648838510DCAC08AFB@White> <531A506E.9040103@abelian.org> <531A5C19.9060209@abelian.org> <02ba01cf3aa3$debaad50$9c3007f0$@comcast.net> <531AF126.2060600@abelian.org> <850A470A5B9F4483BED8B49D4791044A@White>,<531B1D0C.3070208@abelian.org> ,<531B4E01.7000304@abelian.org> In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 01:36:47 -0700 Message-ID: <039f01cf3b72$bfa1db80$3ee59280$@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQFwHFQtNP1cuGk4XhlGVCAC9znl2gG7rsFSAR0lnQgBd+LZewJLh/X8Ab8nTT4C/5bZTAGUATieAUzcPSMBZtiUawDaWzx3AoAxwksBwVpScwI72uscAimolEcBOx9H9AFvOCeiAkNoEzYCaGo2mQKz9UH9mnzf1MA= Content-Language: en-us DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1394354233; bh=kYRM0bSdGXfD7NlByulLbgDnXpJj2NOA6nHBfAnDS4A=; h=Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=KpCvaSOFxKd3IQu5ffD8RnArK66N/kJBXpl9Pa2YfYZZ1Wpfz2MbKZwIBSVXeCowS +snqPHGfJgR22gshbUZWXDQPxWeJTjIcJQJtwFvED95h8VfLMb3Zn+h4On9IKN4qpD A3O0dthU61HIgdHX9IFgnFs0ddjA7pUd+dIdm0A2V8vaGCGxVdZrmLB1TfaFgU9bIT M7AFBuDaqLinyKvz8YLrVuc1nWqPEQMaqOH9KaGVRlPJB+qYC9Bz9RjXA/aqY+7fto hIwBk46b06gE1UhXnvS2rTqXglKbvdklK1S2BF/JmIkhT8xZdBwOiWiOki5LH9cLQu wpTU3g3tjXjjw== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Bob, Some information below on the effects of above-freezing and below-freezing temperatures on various VLF losses, including (a) ground-wave losses, (b) near-field ground effects losses and (c) skywave (waveguide) ground effects losses. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [76.96.30.64 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (hvanesce[at]comcast.net) -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 21c525e2ac3e4268a15690354c54f13c Subject: RE: LF: Daytime 29.499 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03A0_01CF3B38.1344D840" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03A0_01CF3B38.1344D840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, Some information below on the effects of above-freezing and below-freezing temperatures on various VLF losses, including (a) ground-wave losses, (b) near-field ground effects losses and (c) skywave (waveguide) ground effects losses. A short preface: The discussion below is for a VLF system with a vertical transmit antenna. In a VLF system with a vertical transmit antenna, high surface conductivity under the antenna and in the near and far fields is desirable. (1) In a VLF system with a horizontal antenna, low surface conductivity under the antenna is desired, and high surface conductivity is desired elsewhere in the near field, and in the far field. (1) This makes Antarctica a great place for VLF QRP: ice under the antenna; salt water elsewhere (whence the 42 km long dipole at Siple Station: https://s3.amazonaws.com/Antarctica/AJUS/AJUSvXVIIIn5/AJUSvXVIIIn5p270.pdf http://nova.stanford.edu/~vlf/Antarctica/Siple/ ) Temperature coefficients of conductivity: As temperature drops, non-frozen soil conductivity (mhos, siemens) decreases by roughly 1.9% per degree C. (2) As temperature drops below freezing, soil VLF conductivity decreases rapidly; the rate of change is highly dependent on soil type, but a 2:1 change per 10 degrees C at 10 kHz (for below-freezing temperatures) is a reasonable example for some soils. (3) Near field and ground wave losses: As conductivity decreases (i.e. with decreasing temperature), VLF near-field and ground wave losses increase non-linearly (4) At 30kHz, ground wave amplitude is low at 5000 km (4) At 30kHz, ground-wave loss in non-frozen soil of poor conductivity (10^-4 mhos/m) might be 20dB greater (20dB more loss) than in non-frozen soil of fairly good conductivity (10^-2 mhos/m) (4) At 30kHz, ground-wave loss in frozen soil would be very high (4) All of the above might suggest a very low amplitude ground wave at TA distances in mid-winter (ground wave including direct, ground-reflected, Norton surface and trapped surface waves) In that case the long-path part of the problem reduces to skywave losses (skywave ionospheric losses and skywave ground-effects losses): Skywave loss (waveguide loss in this case) due to ground effects is nominally: d_alpha_gnd = [.046 * sqrt(f)] * 1/{h * sqrt(s) * sqrt[1 - (fc/f)^2]} (in units of dB per 1000 km) (5) where f = 29,500 (Hz), fc ~ 2100 (Hz) (day) or 1700 (Hz) (night), h ~ 70 (kilometers), .0001 < s < .01 [s for sigma (conductivity), in mhos per meter; range of values from .01 for very good (highly conductive) soil to .0001 for frozen earth; values below .0001 occur in arctic regions, but such regions tend to have snow and ice above the soil. A different formula is used for snow and ice losses at frequencies below 1 MHz] The formula above may be sufficient for analysis of cold-weather propagation losses over distances of 5 Mm or more. Besides propagation losses, there are near-field and antenna-system losses. Near-field and antenna-system losses: VLF near-field and antenna-system losses associated with ground effects, increase as temperature (and therefore conductivity) decline. The increase in near-field and antenna-system losses can be between sqrt (s) and s^1.5, but the nominal value of these losses is hard to determine analytically for an electrically-short antenna. The calculation for ice/snow cover for your antenna system may be easier to determine analytically; if you're interested I'll send a notional formula. If your VLF signal reports do not change appreciably after a snowfall or an ice storm, that information can be used to help generate a temperature model of your ground-effects-related near-field and antenna-system losses, in which case you might have a good starting point for a whole-system model for all temperatures. Noting what happens to signal reports after a freeze, after a snowfall and after an ice-storm can help to nail down the most difficult part of the system model for a VLF system with an electrically short antenna (antenna-system losses and near-field losses). In summary: A) VLF near-field and antenna-system losses associated with ground effects, increase as temperature declines. Noting what happens to signal reports after a freeze, after a snowfall and after an ice-storm can help to establish a good model for these. Such a model will be useful at all temperatures, and very helpful in the optimization of an electrically-short VLF antenna. B) The formula above for d_alpha_gnd (relative ground-effects losses incurred by the skywave in the waveguide) gives values from about 2 dB per megameter to 6 dB per megameter at 29.5 kHz for soil conditions ranging from fairly good to frozen. This formula is useful by itself for assessing the difference in far-field path loss at various temperatures. Total path loss includes other terms that add to and subtract from* d_alpha_gnd, but those terms are not necessary for assessing changes in ground-effects-related skywave path losses (in the waveguide) over temperature. C) Ideally, you would add (A) to (B) to obtain the sum of the predominant contributors to loss variation over temperature. * terms such as the convergence factor, and reinforcements at discontinuities, subtract from path loss (1) Biggs, AGARD, 1970 (2) a general approximation; Corwin 2005, Ma 2010 (3) Moore 1992 (4) Watt 3.2 (5) Watt 3.4.33 73, Jim AA5BW From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Bob Raide Sent: Saturday, March 8, 2014 10:33 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Daytime 29.499 kHz Paul; It is not only the ground but the air temp has great influence and maybe much more than the shallow depths of the ground freezing-Bob > Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 17:06:09 +0000 > From: vlf0403@abelian.org > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Daytime 29.499 kHz > > > Bob wrote: > > > Wonder what effects soil conductivity changes has on the > > propagation at these VLF freqs?? > > I have no information. You would expect ground resistance > to rise, but would that make noticeable difference to > propagation if it is only a freezing of a shallow surface > layer? > > I had to go to a narrower bandwidth to produce phase and > amplitude plots for last night's test > > http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/29499_140308a.gif > > Signal is down by some 5dB compared with some recent > tests. > > Nothing detected this afternoon. > > Propagation seems normal, noise floor normal. > > Maybe the cold and frozen ground is affecting the tx > efficiency, some lower Q of the loading coil - antenna - > ground loop, or a reduction of effective height. > > Will be interesting to see what happens after the thaw. > > -- > Paul Nicholson > -- > ------=_NextPart_000_03A0_01CF3B38.1344D840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bob,

 

Some information below on the effects of above-freezing and = below-freezing temperatures on various VLF losses, including (a) = ground-wave losses, (b) near-field ground effects losses and (c) skywave = (waveguide) ground effects losses.

 

A short preface:

The discussion below is for a VLF system with a vertical transmit = antenna.

In a VLF system with a vertical transmit antenna, high surface = conductivity under the antenna and in the near and far fields is = desirable.  (1)

In a VLF system with a horizontal antenna, low surface conductivity = under the antenna is desired, and high surface conductivity is desired = elsewhere in the near field, and in the far field.  = (1)

This makes Antarctica a great place for VLF QRP: ice under the = antenna; salt water elsewhere (whence the 42 km long dipole at Siple = Station: https://s3.amazonaws.com/Antarctica/AJUS/AJUSvXVIIIn5/AJUSvXVI= IIn5p270.pdf          =  http://nova.stan= ford.edu/~vlf/Antarctica/Siple/ ) =    

 

 

Temperature coefficients of conductivity:

As temperature drops, non-frozen soil conductivity (mhos, siemens) = decreases by roughly 1.9%  per degree C. = (2)

As temperature drops below freezing, soil VLF conductivity decreases = rapidly; the rate of change is highly dependent on soil type, but a 2:1 = change per 10 degrees C at 10 kHz (for below-freezing temperatures) is a = reasonable example for some soils. (3)

 

Near field and ground wave losses:

As conductivity decreases (i.e. with decreasing temperature), VLF = near-field and ground wave losses increase non-linearly = (4)

At 30kHz, ground wave amplitude is low at 5000 km = (4)

At 30kHz, ground-wave loss in non-frozen soil of poor conductivity = (10^-4 mhos/m) might be 20dB greater (20dB more loss) than in non-frozen = soil of fairly good conductivity (10^-2 mhos/m) =   (4)

At 30kHz, ground-wave loss in frozen soil would be very high (4) =

All of the above might suggest a very low amplitude ground wave at TA = distances in mid-winter (ground wave including direct, ground-reflected, = Norton surface and trapped surface waves)

 

In that case the long-path part of the problem reduces to skywave = losses (skywave ionospheric losses and skywave ground-effects = losses):

Skywave loss (waveguide loss in this case) due to ground effects is = nominally:

 

d_alpha_gnd =3D [.046 * sqrt(f)]  *  1/{h * sqrt(s) * = sqrt[1 – (fc/f)^2]}    (in units of dB per 1000 = km)     (5)

 

where f =3D 29,500 (Hz), fc ~ 2100 (Hz) (day) or 1700 (Hz) (night), h = ~ 70 (kilometers),  .0001 < s < .01  [s for sigma = (conductivity), in mhos per meter; range of values from .01 for very = good (highly conductive) soil to .0001 for frozen earth; values below = .0001 occur in arctic regions, but such regions tend to have snow and = ice above the soil. A different formula is used for snow and ice losses = at frequencies below 1 MHz]

 

The formula above may be sufficient for analysis of cold-weather = propagation losses over distances of 5 Mm or more. Besides propagation = losses, there are near-field and antenna-system = losses.

 

Near-field and antenna-system losses:

VLF near-field and antenna-system losses associated with ground = effects, increase as temperature (and therefore conductivity) decline. = The increase in near-field and antenna-system losses can be between sqrt = (s) and s^1.5, but the nominal value of these losses is hard to = determine analytically for an electrically-short antenna. The = calculation for ice/snow cover for your antenna system may be easier to = determine analytically; if you’re interested I’ll send a = notional formula.

If your VLF signal reports do not change appreciably after a snowfall = or an ice storm, that information can be used to help generate a = temperature model of your ground-effects-related near-field and = antenna-system losses, in which case you might have a good starting = point for a whole-system model for all temperatures.  Noting what = happens to signal reports after a freeze, after a snowfall and after an = ice-storm can help to nail down the most difficult part of the system = model for a VLF system with an electrically short antenna = (antenna-system losses and near-field losses).

In summary:

A)     = VLF near-field and antenna-system losses associated with ground = effects, increase as temperature declines.  Noting what happens to = signal reports after a freeze, after a snowfall and after an ice-storm = can help to establish a good model for these. Such a model will be = useful at all temperatures, and very helpful in the optimization of an = electrically-short VLF antenna.

B)     = The formula above for d_alpha_gnd (relative ground-effects losses = incurred by the skywave in the waveguide) gives values from about 2 dB = per megameter to 6 dB per megameter at 29.5 kHz for soil conditions = ranging from fairly good to frozen. This formula is useful by itself for = assessing the difference in far-field path loss at various temperatures. = Total path loss includes other terms that add to and subtract from* = d_alpha_gnd, but those terms are not necessary for assessing changes in = ground-effects-related skywave path losses (in the waveguide) over = temperature.

C)     = Ideally, you would add (A) to (B) to obtain the sum of the = predominant contributors to loss variation over temperature. =

 

* terms such as the convergence factor, and reinforcements at = discontinuities, subtract from path loss

 

(1)    Biggs, AGARD, 1970

(2)    a general approximation; Corwin 2005, Ma 2010

(3)    Moore 1992

(4)    Watt 3.2

(5)    Watt 3.4.33

 

 

73,  Jim AA5BW

 

 

From:= = owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Bob = Raide
Sent: Saturday, March 8, 2014 10:33 AM
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: RE: LF: Daytime 29.499 = kHz

 

Paul;
It is not only the = ground but the air temp has great influence and maybe much more than the = shallow depths of the ground = freezing-Bob
 

> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 = 17:06:09 +0000
> From: vlf0403@abelian.org
> To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
> Subject: Re: LF: Daytime 29.499 kHz
>
> =
> Bob wrote:
>
> > Wonder what effects soil = conductivity changes has on the
> > propagation at these VLF = freqs??
>
> I have no information. You would expect ground = resistance
> to rise, but would that make noticeable difference = to
> propagation if it is only a freezing of a shallow = surface
> layer?
>
> I had to go to a narrower = bandwidth to produce phase and
> amplitude plots for last night's = test
>
> http://abelian.org/= vlf/tmp/29499_140308a.gif
>
> Signal is down by some = 5dB compared with some recent
> tests.
>
> Nothing = detected this afternoon.
>
> Propagation seems normal, = noise floor normal.
>
> Maybe the cold and frozen ground is = affecting the tx
> efficiency, some lower Q of the loading coil - = antenna -
> ground loop, or a reduction of effective = height.
>
> Will be interesting to see what happens after = the thaw.
>
> --
> Paul Nicholson
> --
> =

------=_NextPart_000_03A0_01CF3B38.1344D840--