Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dl04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DEB8738000090; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 06:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Skv3L-0005po-VC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:37:23 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Skv3L-0005pf-9s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:37:23 +0100 Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([213.165.64.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Skv3I-0005Cx-LZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:37:22 +0100 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 30 Jun 2012 10:37:19 -0000 Received: from p5B3956E3.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [91.57.86.227] by mail.gmx.net (mp012) with SMTP; 30 Jun 2012 12:37:19 +0200 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+QyzRaiteQ+4wmScmb1tV6lpnvJx+eRql8P9USum Ep/CMz1msCS9Dk Message-ID: <027201cd56ac$4f4136d0$1502a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Paul" To: References: <4FEE0F7E.2090109@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <022001cd56a5$f61164a0$1502a8c0@Clemens04> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 12:37:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3664 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: ----- Original Message ----- From: Clemens Paul To: Saturday, June 30, 2012 11:51 AM Subject: LF: Re: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters >If I understand you correctly you did not terminate the filter output side while >measuring with the hi Z probe. [...] Content analysis details: (-0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [213.165.64.22 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (cpaul[at]gmx.net) -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: aaa907f1cfed2776dbc1341844857d57 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_026C_01CD56BD.11475E70" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:512367072:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4ad24feed72c24c4 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_026C_01CD56BD.11475E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Clemens Paul To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 11:51 AM Subject: LF: Re: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters >If I understand you correctly you did not terminate the filter output side while >measuring with the hi Z probe. Oh,sorry for reading not thoroughly enough (perhaps it's too hot today for such things). I see you did terminate with 18k. But as to the input you write in one email: >I have connected ... a 500 Ohm resistor in series to the signal generator, and in another: >I put the 18 kOhm in series to the signal generator Which one did you try or maybe both? 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Clemens Paul To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 11:51 AM Subject: LF: Re: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters Hi Stefan, >4th try... That's the reason why I opted for for the yahoo list... But back on topic.:-) If I understand you correctly you did not terminate the filter output side while measuring with the hi Z probe. I would try the same measurement with a correct termination. As there are also 500Ohm taps available you could either feed with a series 500 Ohm resistor and terminate the output by 500 Ohm or the same arangement with 18k if you don't want to use the 500Ohm taps. The plot looks typcally for a crystal or mechanical filter which has not been terminated properly. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Stefan Schäfer To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:26 PM Subject: LF: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters 4th try... -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Betreff: Help needed, mechanical filters Datum: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:58:41 +0200 Von: Stefan Schäfer An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MF, I have bought a mechanical filter which has a center frequency of 473 kHz. It is available at http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/html/body_hf-spezialbauteile.html (scroll down to FZ 01 / FZ 02). I have both types and just measured the frequency response. There is a data sheet as well which states the impedances to be connected to the wires. There is even a datasheet at http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/assets/applets/FZ_01.pdf All in all it looks very interesting and the slopes are really very sharp. However there is a passband ripple of 10 dB which is very very high. See the image: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/Mechanisches%20Filter%20473%20kHz.png So what have i done wrong? Or is it that bad? The input signal is connected on the left side between the red and green wire. The output signal is taken from the right side on the red and green wire too. It looks as if each side has a coil on the green and red wire, with a tap at the yellow wire. Helpful was this image from the web http://www.amateurfunkmuseum.de/AFM_321b-Dateien/image006.jpg which shows a similar filter. I have connected a resistor of 18 kOhm to the output and a 500 Ohm resistor in series to the signal generator, as stated in the datasheet. But the ripple does not change. Any ideas or suggestions? Guess for what i will need the filter! :-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC E-Mail ist virenfrei. Von AVG überprüft - www.avg.de Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virendatenbank: 2437/5098 - Ausgabedatum: 28.06.2012 E-Mail ist virenfrei. Von AVG überprüft - www.avg.de Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virendatenbank: 2437/5101 - Ausgabedatum: 29.06.2012 ------=_NextPart_000_026C_01CD56BD.11475E70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
----- Original Message -----
From: Clemens Paul
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 = 11:51=20 AM
Subject: LF: Re: Fwd: Help = needed,=20 mechanical filters
 
>If I understand you correctly you = did not=20 terminate the filter output side while
>measuring with the hi Z = probe.
 
Oh,sorry for reading not thoroughly enough
(perhaps it's too hot today for such things).
I see you did terminate with 18k.
But as to the input you write in one email:
 
>I have connected ... a 500 Ohm resistor in series to = the=20 signal generator,
 
and in another:
 
>I put the 18 kOhm in series to the signal generator
 
Which one did you try or maybe both?
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Clemens = Paul
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 = 11:51=20 AM
Subject: LF: Re: Fwd: Help = needed,=20 mechanical filters

Hi Stefan,
 
>4th try...
 
That's the reason why I opted = for for the=20 yahoo list...
 
But back on = topic.:-)
If I understand you correctly you did = not=20 terminate the filter output side while
measuring with the hi Z = probe.
I would try the same measurement with = a correct=20 termination.
As there are also 500Ohm taps = available you=20 could either
feed with a series 500 Ohm resistor = and terminate=20 the output by 500 Ohm
or the same arangement with 18k if = you don't want=20 to use the 500Ohm taps.
The plot looks typcally for a crystal = or=20 mechanical filter which has not been terminated
properly.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ

 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Stefan = Sch=E4fer=20
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 = 10:26=20 PM
Subject: LF: Fwd: Help = needed,=20 mechanical filters

4th try...

-------- Original-Nachricht = --------=20
Betreff: Help needed, mechanical filters
Datum: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:58:41 +0200
Von: Stefan Sch=E4fer "><schaefer@iup.uni-heid= elberg.de>
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= 


MF,

I have bought a mechanical filter which has a center frequency of 473=20
kHz. It is available at=20
http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/html/body_hf-spezialbauteile.html=
=20
(scroll down to FZ 01 / FZ 02). I have both types and just measured the=20
frequency response. There is a data sheet as well which states the=20
impedances to be connected to the wires.
There is even a datasheet at=20
http=
://www.oppermann-electronic.de/assets/applets/FZ_01.pdf

All in all it looks very interesting and the slopes are really very=20
sharp. However there is a passband ripple of 10 dB which is very very=20
high. See the image:=20
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/Mechanisches%20Filter%204=
73%20kHz.png

So what have i done wrong?  Or is it that bad?

The input signal is connected on the left side between the red and green =

wire. The output signal is taken from the right side on the red and=20
green wire too. It looks as if each side has a coil on the green and red =

wire, with a tap at the yellow wire.
Helpful was this image from the web=20
ht=
tp://www.amateurfunkmuseum.de/AFM_321b-Dateien/image006.jpg which=20
shows a similar filter. I have connected a resistor of 18 kOhm to the=20
output and a 500 Ohm resistor in series to the signal generator, as=20
stated in the datasheet. But the ripple does not change.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Guess for what i will need the filter! :-)

73, Stefan/DK7FC

E-Mail ist = virenfrei.
Von AVG=20 =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de
Version:=20 2012.0.2180 / Virendatenbank: 2437/5098 - Ausgabedatum: 28.06.2012=20

E-Mail ist = virenfrei.
Von AVG=20 =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de
Version: 2012.0.2180=20 / Virendatenbank: 2437/5101 - Ausgabedatum: 29.06.2012=20

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