Return-Path: Received: from rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (rly-yb02.mail.aol.com [172.18.205.134]) by air-yb01.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINYB13-17e47e584c8337; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:14:51 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYB22-17e47e584c8337; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:14:44 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1JdByq-0008BY-W1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:14:24 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1JdByq-0008BP-92 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:14:24 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.159]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JdByn-0007d7-Ds for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:14:24 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3414.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id CD7831C00085 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:14:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.47.239]) by mwinf3414.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id CB03A1C00084 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:14:13 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20080322221413831.CB03A1C00084@mwinf3414.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <017601c88c6a$0fffbf20$0d00000a@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <000f01c88a93$d7067790$0d00000a@AGB> <008601c88c34$1c6d43d0$0d00000a@AGB> <000d01c88c35$f0efecb0$6401a8c0@wgt01> <009e01c88c3b$6436ef20$0d00000a@AGB> <00c401c88c4d$54318100$0d00000a@AGB> <00e801c88c52$e2f1bf40$0d00000a@AGB> <014401c88c61$124d6ec0$0d00000a@AGB> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:14:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: WSPR == ON AIR TEST NOW 1545 HRS = 503 KHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n Andy Martin, has just emailed these (and others) to me for jt65 mode .. he has some miss printing on the wspr decode , not much G .. 20:10 6 -19 -1 +001 CQ G0NBD IO83 D=3D222 Km (137 miles)=20 Az=3D310=B0 20:12 6 -19 -1 +001 CQ G0NBD IO83 D=3D222 Km (137 miles)=20 Az=3D310=B0 20:24 3 -12 -1 +001 CQ G0NBD IO83 D=3D222 Km (137 miles)=20 Az=3D310=B0 20:34 8 -17 -1 +001 CQ G0NBD IO83 D=3D222 Km (137 miles)=20 Az=3D310=B0 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Andy Talbot" To: Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 9:43 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: WSPR =3D=3D ON AIR TEST NOW 1545 HRS =3D 503 KHz > Set the new freq just after you announced the QSY, and get the > occasional demod at DF =3D +430Hz which is correct for 1700Hz sync. But > S/N has fallen and is now in the region of -30dB S/N so oughtn't > really to expect a decode. > > Assuming JT65A is 3dB better than the B version, a S/N of around > -25dB ought to be the threshold based on past experience. > > I'd know better if you could generate 3dB more signal :-) > > Andy G4JNT > > > > On 22/03/2008, Graham wrote: >> Ok Andy, >> >> Well its decoding off air ok at my qth , keying looks ok offair and at >> birmingham , >> im running 10 watts per tone (20 watts peak during dual tx) >> >> I have just made a qsy inside the passband , to set the jt65 above the=20 >> wspr >> signal , >> jt65 now using sync tone 1700 Hz dial freq still 501.5 usb >> >> Im not sure if wspr and wsjt6 will run at the same time , but I can try=20 >> over >> the wekend >> if needs be , ive just downloded the windows version of wspr .. but not >> sorted out the >> soundcard yet as he's using , 0123 ... very trad hihi >> >> >> Tnx - G .. >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Andy Talbot" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 8:28 PM >> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: WSPR =3D=3D ON AIR TEST NOW 1545 HRS =3D 503 KHz >> >> >> > Very Interesting. In the WSJT user screen there are several sucessive >> > -19dB S/N individual listings and, out of 70 sequences, it has >> > selected 22 of them as being valid, but not one single correct decode. >> > Experience on JT65B receiving the GB3RAL and GB3VHF beacons shows >> > that -19dB S/N will give perfect copy, and -22dB will decode after two >> > or three averaging sessions, so there's something very odd going on. >> > What I can make out on the spectrogram, the sync tone is in >> > more-or-less the righ place. >> > >> > Your WSPR signal is just 3 Hz low, and the JT65A sync tone about 15Hz >> > lower that stated, which is more than near enough for a valid decode - >> > and the user screen shows its doing just as it should - with some >> > strong enough individual demods BUT NO DECODES - why???????????????. >> > >> > Do I understand you are not using the actual WSJT software to encode >> > the data? Are you actually sure the MultiPSK implementation is doing >> > its job properly. >> > Try WSJT 5.98 >> > >> > Andy G4JNT >> > >> > >> > On 22/03/2008, Graham wrote: >> >> Ok Andy, >> >> >> >> Looks like making headway .... >> >> >> >> I'm using multipsk (the test version) which has jt65-modes .. and=20 >> >> for >> >> want >> >> of a better way of describing the frequency ..sorry if it sounds a=20 >> >> 'cb' >> >> like ... but .. ' The purple line' is set at the 1000 Hz mark on the >> >> waterfall display giving 1002 hz showing on the l/h fequency window >> >> ...as >> >> you say is 270 hz (ish) from the normal point ... but if you set the >> >> prog >> >> to that point , means you can engauge the narrow filter >> >> >> >> WSPR is running at 1500 Hz tone o/p giving 503.00 khz rf carrier >> >> frequency >> >> >> >> I though jt65 would of out performed wspr ...be intresting to see=20 >> >> the >> >> parallel decodes >> >> >> >> Tnx - G .. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Andy Talbot" >> >> To: >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 7:03 PM >> >> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: WSPR =3D=3D ON AIR TEST NOW 1545 HRS =3D 503=20= KHz >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi Graham >> >> > Yes, I've got the right sequence time and am running WSPR and WSJT >> >> > 5.98 in parallel. Surprising the WSJT averaging won't extract a=20 >> >> > valid >> >> > decode. Some of the sessions are being tagged as having the sync >> >> > detected, with a resulting 2.5kHz S/N in the --25dB ballpark, but=20 >> >> > they >> >> > don't want to seem to be pulled together by the averaging. The DF >> >> > figure is coming up as -285Hz, suggesting you're 15Hz lower than >> >> > advertised (should be -270Hz) >> >> > >> >> > Do have very bad QRM here. I've just gone over to th the old 137kHz >> >> > antenna minus its loading coil rather than the HF vertical that was >> >> > the existing 500kHz Rx. The LF Tee is further from the house and >> >> > there is about 10dB less localised E field noise. Its a pity about >> >> > the deliberate jamming taking place just above the upper tone >> >> > frequency. I'm not sure how well JT65 can cope with that. >> >> > >> >> > Update on the WSPR decodes below - it really does seem a very good >> >> > weak signal mode. I'm just about to write June's Data Column for >> >> > radcom. I'll give WSPR a section having now played with it for a >> >> > while in real hard off-air conditions >> >> > >> >> > Andy G4JNT >> >> > >> >> > c:\WSPR>wspr Rx 0 >> >> > 1750 8 -17 -0.1 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 28.3 >> >> > 1752 6 -18 0.1 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 28.3 >> >> > 1754 5 -20 0.0 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 28.2 >> >> > 1756 3 -20 0.1 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 28.4 >> >> > 1758 8 -18 0.1 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 28.9 >> >> > 1800 8 -14 -0.3 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 30.1 >> >> > 1802 1 -24 0.0 0.001487 28.7 >> >> > 1804 4 -20 -0.2 0.001487 27.5 >> >> > 1814 3 -22 -0.2 0.001487 28.1 >> >> > 1816 1 -23 -0.6 0.001487 27.9 >> >> > 1818 4 -24 0.0 0.001487 27.8 >> >> > 1820 7 -19 -0.4 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 27.4 >> >> > 1822 3 -24 -0.1 0.001487 27.6 >> >> > 1828 2 -24 -0.3 0.001487 20.1 >> >> > 1830 5 -23 -0.2 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 27.2 >> >> > 1832 4 -20 -0.1 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 24.6 >> >> > 1834 4 -24 -0.3 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 21.9 >> >> > 1836 5 -23 -0.2 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 22.8 >> >> > 1842 2 -24 -0.3 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 23.2 >> >> > 1844 1 -26 -0.3 0.001487 22.3 >> >> > 1848 7 -19 -0.2 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 21.9 >> >> > 1850 2 -24 0.0 0.001487 24.0 >> >> > 1852 7 -19 -0.1 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 27.3 >> >> > 1854 5 -19 -0.1 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 23.5 >> >> > 1856 3 -19 -0.1 0.001487 G0NBD IO83 37 24.9 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On 22/03/2008, Graham wrote: >> >> >> Ok Andy, >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks for taking a look , the jt65 been running for a while now ,=20 >> >> >> did >> >> >> you >> >> >> have >> >> >> the 2 systems on when you decoded the wspr signals ? >> >> >> >> >> >> jt56 is sending at even mins , check the birmingham grabber ,=20 >> >> >> should >> >> >> show >> >> >> the 2 tone sets >> >> >> >> >> >> Tnx >> >> >> >> >> >> Graham , >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: "Andy Talbot" >> >> >> To: >> >> >> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 6:17 PM >> >> >> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: WSPR =3D=3D ON AIR TEST NOW 1545 HRS =3D 5= 03 KHz >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> >> > Checked by AVG. >> >> > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: >> >> > 3/21/2008 >> >> > 17:52 >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Andy G4JNT >> > www.scrbg.org/g4jnt >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG. >> > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date:=20 >> > 3/21/2008 >> > 17:52 >> > >> > >> >> >> >> > > > --=20 > Andy G4JNT > www.scrbg.org/g4jnt > > > > > --=20 > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008= =20 > 17:52 > >=20