Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.25]) by air-dd07.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDD073-865d4d504a20ac; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 14:38:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D6CCB3800060F; Mon, 7 Feb 2011 14:38:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PmWtF-0001Dc-L6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 19:36:49 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PmWtE-0001DT-2Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 19:36:48 +0000 Received: from out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.238]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PmWtB-0001TJ-V4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2011 19:36:48 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Al0BAO/XT01Ok8W//2dsb2JhbACSeINiDo5Nc7lphVoEgWCNTw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,438,1291593600"; d="scan'208,217";a="354979075" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.197.191]) by out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 07 Feb 2011 19:36:39 +0000 Message-ID: <016101cbc6fe$54e68f20$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <252130CB355C48E4BC32BA23475FEF68@White> <014201cbc6f4$028d5dd0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <6EA05205DCDC45179C3ED6BE697A12C8@White> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:36:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: OE5ODL over different paths Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_015E_01CBC6FE.54790040" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60194d504a1e2134 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 ------=_NextPart_000_015E_01CBC6FE.54790040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Markus My report is more important by reporting that I can copy these signals= in a wide FFT bandwidth, more suitable information for QSO purposes= at reasonable speeds. You seem to be concentrating on statistical recording data on narrow= FFT bandwidths which distorts the true facts. ie One thinks that narrow FFT bandwidths are a necessity to observe si= gnals on VLF, which is not the case.=20 Most information circulating and grabbers seem to favour this narrow= FFT bandwith procedure. My main object is to communicate at an appropriate speed for condition= s at the time and not be intimated by statistical nonsense. I surely have proved the point over this past weekend by receiving bot= h DK7FC and OE5ODL in QRS3 mode and faster. Until now the trend has been QRS600 or slower as the only way, and mmm= mmmmH FFT bandwidths. I prefer to experiment and operate at the fastest QRS speed possible= and CW on LF/VLF to communicate=20 g3kev =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:04 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: OE5ODL over different paths Mal, your report for Ossi is certainly acknowledged, and the fact that yo= ur good receive conditions often allow you to see a signal in a relati= vely wide FFT bandwidth was indeed noted. In the context of my recent posting, it was not my intention to list= or qualify reception reports or DX achievements. In order to visualis= e patterns of fieldstrength variation over of the day, I was looking= for continuous multi-hour traces on the available grabbers. And yes, an additional data set for your distance would be valuable= indeed. For this, you could either run SpecLab slowly, or perhaps use= it's plotter function to create a graph or list of signal level versu= s time. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:22 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: OE5ODL over different paths Markus You forgot my reception report at 1191 km as confirmed by Stefan. I was able to copy all day at a speed as fast as QRS3.The signal for= most of the day morning and afternoon was fairly steady. The signal was strong enough for a QSO at QRS 3 or QRS10 Please get the statistics correct, leaving out the 1191 km distance= distorts the facts. g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:49 PM Subject: VLF: OE5ODL over different paths Today's long carrier from OE5ODL provides another nice illustratio= n of the diurnal modal interference patterns. The receivers at about 200 km see a minimum before and around loca= l noon OE3GHB http://members.aon.at/grabber/VLF/index.html , DF6NM http://www.mydarc.de/df6nm/vlf/vlfgrabber.htm . However at about 400 km, a maximum occurs at the same time DK7FC http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/DK7FC_VLF_Gra= bber.html ("600" window). Renato's line at about 600 km IK1QFK http://www.webalice.it/rromero/pontese/Spectrum3/last-LFte= st.jpg looks somewhat flatter, but apparently receiver gain had been step= ped up at 12:45. At nearly 2800 km, TF3HZ http://simnet.is/halldorgudmunds/TF3HZ_VLFgrabber/ ("2400"= window) again sees a rather flat inimum from about 10 to 12 UT. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) ------=_NextPart_000_015E_01CBC6FE.54790040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Markus
My report is more important by reporting that= I can copy=20 these signals in a wide FFT bandwidth, more suitable information for= QSO=20 purposes at reasonable speeds.
You seem to be concentrating on statistical re= cording data=20 on narrow FFT bandwidths which distorts the true facts.
ie One thinks that narrow FFT bandwidths are= a necessity=20 to observe signals on VLF, which is not the case. 
Most information circulating and grabbers seem= to favour=20 this narrow FFT bandwith procedure.
My main object is to communicate at an appropr= iate speed=20 for conditions at the time and not be intimated by statistical=20 nonsense.
I surely have proved the point over this past= weekend by=20 receiving both DK7FC and OE5ODL in QRS3 mode and faster.
Until now the trend has been QRS600 or slower&= nbsp;as the=20 only way, and mmmmmmmH FFT bandwidths.
I prefer to experiment and operate at the= fastest QRS=20 speed possible and CW on LF/VLF to communicate
g3kev
 
   
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 07, 20= 11 7:04=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: OE5ODL= over=20 different paths

Mal,
 
your report for Ossi is certainly= acknowledged,=20 and the fact that your good receive conditions often allow= you to=20 see a signal in a relatively wide FFT bandwidth was indeed= =20 noted.
 
In the context of my recent posting= , it was not=20 my intention to list or qualify reception reports or DX achievements= . In order=20 to visualise patterns of fieldstrength variation over of the da= y, I was=20 looking for continuous multi-hour traces on the available= =20 grabbers.
 
And yes, an additional data set for= your distance=20 would be valuable indeed. For this, you could either run SpecLa= b slowly,=20 or perhaps use it's plotter function to create a graph or= list of=20 signal level versus time.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)

From: mal hamilton=
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 7:22 PM
Subject: LF: Re: OE5ODL over different paths
=
=
Markus
You forgot my reception report at  1191= km as=20 confirmed by Stefan.
I was able to copy all day at a speed as fas= t as=20 QRS3.The signal for most of the day morning and afternoon was fairly= =20 steady.
The signal was strong enough for a QSO at QR= S 3 or=20 QRS10
Please get the statistics correct, leaving= out the 1191=20 km distance distorts the facts.
g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 07,= 2011 5:49=20 PM
Subject: VLF: OE5ODL over= different=20 paths

Today's long carrier from OE5ODL&= nbsp;provides=20 another nice illustration of the diurnal modal interference= =20 patterns.
 
The receivers at about 200 km see=  a=20 minimum before and around local noon
 
However at about 400 km,&nbs= p;a maximum=20 occurs at the same time
 
Renato's line at about 600= km
looks somewhat flatter, but = apparently=20 receiver gain had been stepped up at 12:45.
 
At nearly 2800 km,
again sees a rather flat ini= mum from about=20 10 to 12 UT.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
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