Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13417 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 23:02:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 23:02:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 27810 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 23:02:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 23:02:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oCSs-000661-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:54:54 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oCSq-00065w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:54:53 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp253.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.253]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA12981 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:54:21 +1000 Message-ID: <014601c0c46c$ba6d2100$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010328085558.2f57efaa@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Re: Soft phase switching... Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:54:34 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Rik, > > BTW, another idea : > What happens if you send a BPSK (instant phase switching) as reference > signal to a PLL ? > The reaction time of the PLL would depend on the feedback circuitery, maybe > this could also be used to get 'soft phase transistions'. > At 136kHz the whole PLL could be incorporated in a single CMOS4046, just 1 > cheap IC and half a dozen resistors/capacitors might do the job. > What a fascinating idea !! I have been struggling with a way to reduce the BW of the simple hard-phase switching from an XOR gate (used for generating FDK signals). I had tried all sorts of complicated ways of generating a suitable signal (PWM with high switching frequency, stepped phase change, etc) not much different from previous ideas from others. Your idea of a PLL captured (:-) my interest. I did a couple of spectrum analyses using Excel for both the hard-switched case (see Wanjina.gif attached - 3kB) and for a slow-phase case (see Wanjina_Slow.gif attached - 3kB). The hard-switched case shows the expected spectrum. The slow-switched case shows the appearance of the "carrier" frequency between the two mains sidebands and the close-in sidebands are of the same order of magnitude as the hard-switched case. The gain comes from the rapid roll-off further out. Looks promising. When I get a round tuit I will implement this using a CD4046 as suggested. There are two phase detectors. One which uses an XOR gate and locks to a phase difference of 90 degrees. This one is not suitable as it seems to lock to +/-90 degrees, therefore I suspect for an 180 degrees shift it would only momentarily hiccup but not actually switch phase. The other phase detector locks to a zero phase difference and so would switch. The only disadvantage is that it has less noise immunity. This should not be an issue here as there are no S/N considerations (or very little). A great piece of lateral thinking Rik !! 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX Amateur Radio Astronomy =============================================