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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 14:30:38 -0400
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Content preview: Hi Stefan, Your ground-loop results are pure enjoyment at
this spectator QTH; the numbers that you provided in your âERP and loop
efficiencyâ message below seem to suggest efficiency equal to or better
than that of the Norway (Dazey) test. This is a most remarkable and enjoyable
experiment in many ways. [...]
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Subject: LF: RE: ERP and loop efficiency
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Hi Stefan,
=20
Your ground-loop results are pure enjoyment at this spectator QTH; the =
numbers that you provided in your =E2=80=9CERP and loop =
efficiency=E2=80=9D message below seem to suggest efficiency equal to or =
better than that of the Norway (Dazey) test. This is a most remarkable =
and enjoyable experiment in many ways.
=20
73,
=20
Jim AA5BW=20
=20
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of DK7FC
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 9:07 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: ULF: ERP and loop efficiency
=20
Hi Jim,=20
(I changed the subject.)
Well, i remember there was a day where Markus transmitted on 8270 Hz, =
and me too. We were both visible on Paul's grabber.=20
Markus told me i was about 5 dB stronger there. Here is a spectrum from =
Pauls grabber (me on 8270.000 Hz) =
http://78.46.38.217/fbins3.html#p=3D1532887200 =
<http://78.46.38.217/fbins3.html#p=3D1532887200&b=3D120&s=3Dpw&m=3Dcardio=
id&w=3Dr&h=3D42&z1=3D0.34&z2=3D0.64&c=3D1&mb=3D632,136,655,212,1> =
&b=3D120&s=3Dpw&m=3Dcardioid&w=3Dr&h=3D42&z1=3D0.34&z2=3D0.64&c=3D1&mb=3D=
632,136,655,212,1
Well the Distance from Paul to Markus is 1028 km, the distance to my =
ground loop is 840 km. Markus used an E field antenne, i used a H field =
antenna, so there may be some better filter and antenna mixing =
coefficients for one of the stations. Let's say, due to the different =
distances, i have an advantage of 1.8 dB.
Markus states he emits 10 uW (i guess that is EMRP) so my signal seems =
to have about 20 uW EMRP during that transmission, in which i run 550 mA =
antenna current.=20
Meanwhile i can run 1.8 A antenna current (+10.3 dB), so the signal =
could have 215 uW. That is with 255 W RF power. So the antenna =
efficiency is about -60 dB at 8270 Hz, based on Markus' 10 uW statement =
(?).
I have no idea if the equivalent loop area actually increases with a =
dropping TX frequency. On LF it seems to do at least :-)
Assuming the area is constant, the efficiency will be even 14.4 dB lower =
on 1570 Hz and 18.6 dB lower on 970 Hz. Uuuh i hope this is not true =
:-)
So the EMRP on 1570 Hz was maybe 8 uW at a -74.4 dB efficiency.
73, Stefan
Am 10.09.2018 08:19, schrieb hvanesce@comcast.net:=20
Hello Markus, Stefan, Paul,
=20
Is there any way of guessing the ERP of the 1570 Hz (or 2970 Hz) =
earth-loop tests last week?
=20
I noticed that ERP/wallplug-power efficiency of the Norway (Dazey) test =
at 1280 Hz might extrapolate to about 2E-8 with 1 km between electrodes =
(with ~ 20 ohm electrode-to-earth resistance); and though it might be =
informative to compare. =20
=20
73,
=20
Jim AA5BW
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite =
lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Stefan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Your ground-loop results are pure enjoyment at this spectator QTH; =
the numbers that you provided in your =E2=80=9CERP and loop =
efficiency=E2=80=9D message below seem to suggest efficiency equal to or =
better than that of the </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Norway (Dazey) test. This is a most remarkable and enjoyable =
experiment in many ways.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>73,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Jim AA5BW</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt=
ext'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt=
ext'> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>DK7FC<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 10, 2018 9:07 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<br><b>Subject:</b> ULF: =
ERP and loop efficiency<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Jim, =
<br><br>(I changed the subject.)<br>Well, i remember there was a day =
where Markus transmitted on 8270 Hz, and me too. We were both visible on =
Paul's grabber. <br>Markus told me i was about 5 dB stronger there. Here =
is a spectrum from Pauls grabber (me on 8270.000 Hz) <a =
href=3D"http://78.46.38.217/fbins3.html#p=3D1532887200&b=3D120&s=3D=
pw&m=3Dcardioid&w=3Dr&h=3D42&z1=3D0.34&z2=3D0.64&=
c=3D1&mb=3D632,136,655,212,1">http://78.46.38.217/fbins3.html#p=3D153=
2887200&b=3D120&s=3Dpw&m=3Dcardioid&w=3Dr&h=3D42&=
z1=3D0.34&z2=3D0.64&c=3D1&mb=3D632,136,655,212,1</a><br>Well =
the Distance from Paul to Markus is 1028 km, the distance to my ground =
loop is 840 km. Markus used an E field antenne, i used a H field =
antenna, so there may be some better filter and antenna mixing =
coefficients for one of the stations. Let's say, due to the different =
distances, i have an advantage of 1.8 dB.<br>Markus states he emits 10 =
uW (i guess that is EMRP) so my signal seems to have about 20 uW EMRP =
during that transmission, in which i run 550 mA antenna current. =
<br>Meanwhile i can run 1.8 A antenna current (+10.3 dB), so the signal =
could have 215 uW. That is with 255 W RF power. So the antenna =
efficiency is about -60 dB at 8270 Hz, based on Markus' 10 uW statement =
(?).<br><br>I have no idea if the equivalent loop area actually =
increases with a dropping TX frequency. On LF it seems to do at least =
:-)<br>Assuming the area is constant, the efficiency will be even 14.4 =
dB lower on 1570 Hz and 18.6 dB lower on 970 Hz. Uuuh i hope this =
is not true :-)<br>So the EMRP on 1570 Hz was maybe 8 uW at a -74.4 dB =
efficiency.<br><br>73, Stefan<br><br><br>Am 10.09.2018 08:19, schrieb <a =
href=3D"mailto:hvanesce@comcast.net:">hvanesce@comcast.net:</a> =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hello Markus, Stefan, Paul,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Is there any way of guessing the ERP of the 1570 Hz (or 2970 Hz) =
earth-loop tests last week?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I noticed that ERP/wallplug-power efficiency of the Norway (Dazey) =
test at 1280 Hz might extrapolate to about 2E-8 with 1 km between =
electrodes (with ~ 20 ohm electrode-to-earth resistance); and though it =
might be informative to compare. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>73,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Jim AA5BW</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br><br></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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