Return-Path: Received: from rly-de08.mx.aol.com (rly-de08.mail.aol.com [172.19.170.144]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v121_r5.5) with ESMTP id MAILINDE044-4f3495d472a8; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:44:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-de08.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDE082-4f3495d472a8; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:43:56 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LIWGO-000850-8g for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 22:43:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LIWGN-00084r-IN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 22:43:35 +0000 Received: from smtp-out-3.talktalk.net ([62.24.128.233] helo=smtp.talktalk.net) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LIWGM-0005J4-72 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Jan 2009 22:43:35 +0000 X-Path: TTSMTP X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AmsFAMPVXElOkJ5m/2dsb2JhbACCbiWBQsYXhXI Received: from unknown (HELO mal769a60aa920) ([78.144.158.102]) by smtp.talktalk.net with SMTP; 01 Jan 2009 22:43:53 +0000 Message-ID: <00fa01c96c62$5cb8cea0$0301a8c0@mal769a60aa920> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <008b01c96c2f$03ecc0c0$0301a8c0@mal769a60aa920> <495D1607.7090907@toya.net.pl> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 22:43:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Karma: 0: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: NON MORSE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C96C62.5B984370" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TITLE_EMPTY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C96C62.5B984370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RTTY uses the Murray code and the baud rate is normally 45, 50 or 75 and tra= nsmitted in FSK mode. For those operators that can read the code it can be r= ead directly on a waterfall display. IE for RY normal test sequence the elem= ents are R =3D 2 and 4, and Y=3D 1 3 5. It can be read in a similar way to=20= visual morse. This would possibly be a good system to use if slowed down sim= ilar to QRS morse, with all the benefits. You do not need a teleprinter or any sort of print display, just read it dir= ectly off the waterfall display, 1 ele start, 5 elements info, and 1 and 1/2= elements stop. (total 7-1/2 elements per character) easy to ID and read. 73 mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Piotr M=C5=82ynarski=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:14 PM Subject: Re: LF: NON MORSE mal hamilton wrote:=20 I have been looking around the various HF bands for NON MORSE acty and f= ind that the old RTTY is the most prolific mode in use, it looks like the u= se of other data modes are rare, perhaps more suited to V/UHF EME work etc. g3kev Hello Mal., LF group i do not agree with you. I guess if you had taken more time for your w= atch of HF bands your conclusions would be different.=20 it is sometimes useful to extend time basis for making more reliable "av= erages " , hi. in my opinion it is PSK31 as #1 these days. Of course from historical reasons rtty dominated in ether for many years= but the last decade has changed it when DSP =20 techniques came into play along with PC's in almost every house etc... . b= tw, rtty as you know is based on a Baudot code known before=20 radio waves were 'discovered' and used to carry information . the popula= rity of rtty is based on the selfsynchronizing properties of the 7bit Baudod code ( 1 start bit one stop bit + 5 bits for letters/nonlette= rs dot, hyphen....) it is not arq mode so you can listen to it anytime etc= .. like CW which is also itself selfsynchronizing i.e you know very well whe= n it is started stopped etc... PSK works the same way - from all=20 so called 'digital' modes it is like a live qso with its speed similar to= CW and so one and the selfsynchronizing properties due to the varicode of G= 3PLX are great ! that is why , in my opinion psk31 wins these days. my first=20= psk qso was almost 10 years ago and i work mainly psk on HF bands tiill now= . I do think it is the most popular digi mode at present.=20 Dear Mal, here is one issue more ... i do observe the ongoing discussion between you and others concerning the=20= CW vs other modes. in a moment i will add my comment to this but in the form of example of one of my psk qso which i will remember f= orever. it was in the early 2000's when the prop was not that bad and i had regular(everyday basis) qso with US stations at the evenings=20= on 14 Mhz . it was an american callsign - i do not remember it ( but can l= ook into my logbook if you want) but what i do remember he was 86 years old= , all time ( both his work and his hobby) a CW operator but by that time= he was deaf, completely deaf and he told me" Peter, i can not use my EARS=20= i am a deaf person i can not use CW anymore but i can use my EYES and due t= o psk i still can enjoy my radiohobby" - please, excuse my english but the=20= sense of the words of this old man is obvious.=20 so at least two points are emerging... 1. we have ears we have eyes =3D both human senses can be used to 'r= ead' the information which modulates the radiowave 2. the dsp techniiques are more superior to CW these days as far as S/N=20= is concerned again, HNY 2009 , yours, peter,=20= sq7mpj qth: lodz, poland /jo91rs/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release Date: 12/31/200= 8 8:44 AM ------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C96C62.5B984370 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
RTTY uses the Murray code and the baud rate= is=20 normally 45, 50 or 75 and transmitted in FSK mode. For those operators that=20= can=20 read the code it can be read directly on a waterfall display. IE for RY norm= al=20 test sequence the elements are R =3D 2 and 4,  and Y=3D 1 3 5. It=20= can be=20 read in a similar way to visual morse. This would possibly be a good system=20= to=20 use if slowed down similar to QRS morse, with all the benefits.
You do not need a teleprinter or any sort o= f print=20 display, just read it directly off the waterfall display, 1 ele start, 5=20 elements info, and 1 and 1/2 elements stop. (total 7-1/2 elements per charac= ter)=20 easy to ID and read.
73 mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Piotr=20 M=C5=82ynarski
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:= 14=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: NON MORSE

mal hamilton wrote:=20
I have been looking around the various=20= HF bands=20 for NON MORSE acty and find  that the old RTTY is the most=20 prolific mode in use, it looks like the use of other data modes are rare= ,=20 perhaps more suited to V/UHF EME work etc.
g3kev
 
Hello Mal., LF  group
i do not agr= ee=20 with you.  I guess if  you  had taken more time for  y= our=20 watch of HF bands your conclusions would be different.
it is=20 sometimes  useful to  extend time basis for making more reliable= =20 "averages " , hi.  in my opinion it is  PSK31  as =20 #1  these days.
Of course from historical reasons rtty  domin= ated=20 in ether  for many years but  the last decade has changed= =20 it  when  DSP 
techniques came into play along with PC'= s in=20 almost every house etc... . btw, rtty  as you know is based on a Baud= ot=20 code known before
 radio waves were 'discovered' and used = ; to=20 carry information . the popularity of rtty is based on the=20 selfsynchronizing properties of the
 7bit Baudod code ( 1 start bi= t=20 one stop bit + 5 bits for letters/nonletters dot, hyphen....)  it is=20= not=20 arq mode  so you can listen to it anytime etc..
like CW which is=20 also  itself selfsynchronizing i.e you know very well when it is star= ted=20 stopped etc... PSK  works the same way -  from all
so called= =20 'digital' modes it  is like a live qso with its speed similar=20= to=20 CW and so one and the selfsynchronizing properties due to the varicode of=20 G3PLX
are great !  that is why , in my opinion psk31 wins these=20 days.  my first psk qso was almost 10 years ago and i work mainly psk= on=20 HF bands  tiill now.
 I  do think it is the most popular= =20 digi mode at present.

Dear Mal, here is one issue more ...
i do= =20 observe the ongoing discussion between you and others concerning the CW vs= =20 other modes.  in a moment i will add my comment to this
  but= in=20 the form of example of one of my psk qso which i will remember  forev= er.=20 it was  in the early 2000's  when the prop was not that=20 bad
 and i had regular(everyday basis)  qso  with US=20 stations at the evenings on 14 Mhz . it was an  american callsign - i= do=20 not remember  it ( but can look into my logbook if you want)  bu= t=20 what i do remember he was 86 years old  , all time ( both his work an= d=20 his hobby) a CW operator   but by that time he was deaf, complet= ely=20 deaf  and he told me" Peter, i can not use my EARS  i am a deaf=20 person i can not use CW anymore but i can use my EYES and due to psk i sti= ll=20 can enjoy my radiohobby"  - please, excuse my english but the sense=20 of  the words of this old man is obvious.
so  at least two=20 points are emerging...
1.  we have ears we have eyes  =3D&nbs= p;=20 both human senses  can be used  to  'read' the information=20 which modulates the radiowave
2.  the dsp techniiques are more=20 superior  to CW these days as far as S/N is=20 concerned

         &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;            = ;     =20 again, HNY  2009 , yours, peter, sq7mpj

qth:   lodz, pola= nd=20 /jo91rs/



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 -=20 Release Date: 12/31/2008 8:44 AM
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