Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4AEA8380000AC; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:57:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SkiEq-0002sg-2B for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:56:24 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SkiEp-0002sX-EC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:56:23 +0100 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SkiEn-0008Vm-A6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:56:22 +0100 Received: from aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20120629205620.PIOI15330.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:56:20 +0100 Received: from boxa ([86.24.136.143]) by aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.3.00.04.00 201-2196-133-20080908) with SMTP id <20120629205619.UDFM23925.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@boxa> for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:56:19 +0100 From: "Mike" To: Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 21:56:02 +0100 Message-ID: <00a201cd5639$99b912a0$0200a8c0@boxa> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <4FEE0F7E.2090109@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2001 Importance: Normal X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=R50lirqlHffDPPkwUlkuVa99MrvKdVWo//yz83qex8g= c=1 sm=0 a=vGjkTdrGDAgA:10 a=uObrxnre4hsA:10 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=VoRU4pNpVuMA:10 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=q1sqUgIiAAAA:8 a=VAMm1qzQAAAA:8 a=5Wi1-r2fAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=488HzUmRLvi9yRs41V4A:9 a=PUjeQqilurYA:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=gUVE0s_LM8WGMU-y6WUA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=eo-GZudRXdAA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Stefan The source or load impedances are wrong. Try the test with a pot in series on one end first and see what value resistance reduces the ripple. Best if a spec can be found then design circuit to provide the correct Z. If no spec then vary the source and load until the ripple is minimum - ignore the insertion loss at this time. When you come to a value then provide it with the circuitry. When this stage is reached the insertion loss should minimise at the same time as the ripple. Looks an excellent filter and will perform well when fed and loaded correctly. 73 de Mike G3JVL Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [81.103.221.49 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 081739af09bdcbecda01e4d970c01b31 Subject: LF: RE: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CD5641.FB823590" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:482307712:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600b4fee16b8793b X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CD5641.FB823590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Stefan The source or load impedances are wrong. Try the test with a pot in series on one end first and see what value resistance reduces the ripple. Best if a spec can be found then design circuit to provide the correct Z. If no spec then vary the source and load until the ripple is minimum - ignore the insertion loss at this time. When you come to a value then provide it with the circuitry. When this stage is reached the insertion loss should minimise at the same time as the ripple. Looks an excellent filter and will perform well when fed and loaded correctly. 73 de Mike G3JVL -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Stefan Schäfer Sent: 29 June 2012 21:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters 4th try... -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Betreff: Help needed, mechanical filters Datum: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:58:41 +0200 Von: Stefan Schäfer An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MF, I have bought a mechanical filter which has a center frequency of 473 kHz. It is available at http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/html/body_hf-spezialbaute ile.html (scroll down to FZ 01 / FZ 02). I have both types and just measured the frequency response. There is a data sheet as well which states the impedances to be connected to the wires. There is even a datasheet at http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/assets/applets/FZ_01.pdf All in all it looks very interesting and the slopes are really very sharp. However there is a passband ripple of 10 dB which is very very high. See the image: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/Mechanisches%20Filter%2 0473%20kHz.png So what have i done wrong? Or is it that bad? The input signal is connected on the left side between the red and green wire. The output signal is taken from the right side on the red and green wire too. It looks as if each side has a coil on the green and red wire, with a tap at the yellow wire. Helpful was this image from the web http://www.amateurfunkmuseum.de/AFM_321b-Dateien/image006.jp g which shows a similar filter. I have connected a resistor of 18 kOhm to the output and a 500 Ohm resistor in series to the signal generator, as stated in the datasheet. But the ripple does not change. Any ideas or suggestions? Guess for what i will need the filter! :-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: 2433.1.1/5098 - Release Date: 06/29/12 07:34:00 ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CD5641.FB823590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=20 Stefan The source or load impedances are wrong. Try the test with a pot = in=20 series on one end first and see what value resistance reduces the=20 ripple.
Best=20 if a spec can be found then design circuit to provide the correct=20 Z.
If no=20 spec then vary the source and load until the ripple is minimum - ignore = the=20 insertion loss at this time.
When=20 you come to a value then provide it with the = circuitry.
When=20 this stage is reached the insertion loss should minimise at the same = time as the=20 ripple.
Looks=20 an excellent filter and will perform well when fed and loaded=20 correctly.
73 de=20 Mike G3JVL
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Stefan=20 Sch=E4fer
Sent: 29 June 2012 21:27
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Fwd: Help needed,=20 mechanical filters

4th try...

--------=20 Original-Nachricht --------=20
Betreff: Help needed, mechanical filters
Datum: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:58:41 +0200
Von: Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@iup.uni-heide= lberg.de>
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= 


MF,

I have bought a mechanical filter which has a center frequency of 473=20
kHz. It is available at=20
http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/html/body_hf-spezialbauteile.html=
=20
(scroll down to FZ 01 / FZ 02). I have both types and just measured the=20
frequency response. There is a data sheet as well which states the=20
impedances to be connected to the wires.
There is even a datasheet at=20
http=
://www.oppermann-electronic.de/assets/applets/FZ_01.pdf

All in all it looks very interesting and the slopes are really very=20
sharp. However there is a passband ripple of 10 dB which is very very=20
high. See the image:=20
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/Mechanisches%20Filter%204=
73%20kHz.png

So what have i done wrong?  Or is it that bad?

The input signal is connected on the left side between the red and green =

wire. The output signal is taken from the right side on the red and=20
green wire too. It looks as if each side has a coil on the green and red =

wire, with a tap at the yellow wire.
Helpful was this image from the web=20
ht=
tp://www.amateurfunkmuseum.de/AFM_321b-Dateien/image006.jpg which=20
shows a similar filter. I have connected a resistor of 18 kOhm to the=20
output and a 500 Ohm resistor in series to the signal generator, as=20
stated in the datasheet. But the ripple does not change.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Guess for what i will need the filter! :-)

73, Stefan/DK7FC

No virus found in this incoming = message.
Checked=20 by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: = 2433.1.1/5098 -=20 Release Date: 06/29/12 = 07:34:00

------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CD5641.FB823590--