Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1480; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u9VFid1A011596 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 16:44:40 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1c1Ehn-000692-FC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 15:40:59 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1c1Ehm-00068t-UC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 15:40:58 +0000 Received: from resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net ([2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:42]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1c1Ehj-0004i8-78 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 15:40:57 +0000 Received: from resomta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.98]) by resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 1EgqcUc6NRing1EhecRqxU; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 15:40:50 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=comcast.net Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1477928450; bh=KfjXJUw7yW26XPS72sY+aKUdXCUblZgqrHP0Dc4OuX8=; h=Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=Wj1cqrA35H7jORa4Y0X4gjtcUfUA13HMHM00lWGqHQLFHO1wyVPAHJhpRTpI2uKHj aXDGwgV53OqBXlKzLKO1kqyzXCvoQRpcwiyxAx2p9sOCDK57wbs3uhFQta4aOFM/Qk MBtIAVADkkl7zLS2Dm6d4K6sDe+TGNfnZaxhb+MnqJlfBNwuV9qfW8jb0UEwyy8cMu OFBjnUk5Bvic5BfTu/InjAyjvTb71f67G3l7KdM44YMRZN0CqBXceMB+NpqvnW4lOK arCAcmGFI/zszQifSucdv8+9ZPm4EuTPItE7DYMitxWslQ3O1jyG5abLdF3RCHsocl U6Om8X79qDTtw== Received: from Owner ([IPv6:2601:141:0:bec5:ddcd:1bf3:33ab:ea82]) by resomta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 1EhdcLF3hMhnC1Ehdcg3W5; Mon, 31 Oct 2016 15:40:50 +0000 From: To: References: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB5D83FBD7@servigilant.vigilant.local> <5811D6B3.7090201@posteo.de> <58174098.5060108@posteo.de> In-Reply-To: <58174098.5060108@posteo.de> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 11:40:07 -0400 Message-ID: <006d01d2338d$266c6910$73453b30$@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQEwcijGA2pBHcGCMlTqxIwePWEm3AJNxFabAd6fDv+h5NHhEA== Content-Language: en-us X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfMCfw8qfi7ULsg/yqKPVaLESz5hL6sd6NlDWPfe+ilQbHolBibBHqbqk4ZkcD/fjpeyXPLoyqfee/XUkU5djfNHj8QxGKrtLtMiPnvqWPqv9VWyMUdFT 0OWDGOzHYWZnf3gR29wVGWntonFdtJlLi5I= X-Scan-Signature: 5624f0ff3acda0934438723229c028ec Subject: RE: ULF: A new step on the large ULF coil... Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01D2336B.9F5C0190" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Content-Length: 13997 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9320 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01D2336B.9F5C0190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan, =20 Nicely done, efficient design for your high-quality winding. =20 73, =20 Jim AA5BW =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of DK7FC Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 9:01 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: ULF: A new step on the large ULF coil... =20 I got some feedback that the link to the video wasn't working because Dropbox is blocking the link, they say it causes to much traffic. Its overdue to find an alternative! Here's the link directly from the uni server now: http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/20160702_222257.mp4 73, Stefan Am 27.10.2016 12:28, schrieb DK7FC:=20 Hi Luis,=20 Am 27.10.2016 11:40, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:=20 Amazing work Stefan !! :-O =20 I bet you have constructed some kind of support (like a lathe) which = lets you rotate the pipe easily and wound the coils . Right ? Right! See: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/ULF/20160702_222257.mp4 It's quite comfortable but still a lot of work. This is getting really heavy and the quality of coils looks very nice = and repeteable ...... at least five times ! ;-) 5 kg of copper wire so far. Still quite managable. =20 Dumb question: Why do you get different inductance values when = resonating it with antenna equivalent capacitor and when measuring current at 273V AC = / 50Hz ?? Shouldn't be inductance a constant value ? ...... or I'm missing = something obvious :( It's due to the inner-winding capacity which is higher than on a single layer coil. At the self-resonance frequency you need no external C to = get this resonance, of course. Then add just 10 pF external C. The new = resonance frequency will be almost the same. If you calculate L from that = frequency and C, it will be a gigantic high value, several GH :-)=20 Assume the internal C is 100 pF. And L is 4 H. Then f res will be about 7.9577 kHz. With 10 pF external it will be 7.5874 kHz. If you ignore the internal C and say "I'm getting 7.5874 kHz with just 10 pF connected to = the L" you would calculate L =3D 44 H! So you need to switch a much larger C in parallel to L so that the = internal C becomes irrelevant. Maybe 1 uF, then you will get 79.6 Hz at 4H. When calculating L with 1.000001 uF (1uF + 100 pF) and 79.6 Hz you will get = 3.997 H, which is quite correct! It doesn't need to be a resonated circuit of course. You can also apply = a constant voltage and simply measure the current. But you need to know = the DC resistance then. Then Z =3D U/I =3D R^2 + XL^2 and L =3D XL / 314 (at 50 = Hz). =20 Good luck with the 6th floor. Seems that there is no room for a 7th, so that's why you mentioned the variometer I will first build the variometer now on a 16cm diameter and 6cm high = piece of tube. Will see what the tuning range is. You know, actually i'm not a friend of calculations if i can do an experiment instead :-) 73, Stefan =20 73 de Luis EA5DOM =20 _____ =20 De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: mi=E9rcoles, 26 de octubre de 2016 19:06 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: ULF: A new step on the large ULF coil... Hi ULF,=20 It's just a few weeks ago, now the 5th stack is wound on the coil: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/ULF/20161026_185804.jpg The DC resistance rose from 445 Ohm to 572 Ohm. The measured resonance frequency (using the antenna equivalent C in the shack) dropped from 3.667 kHz down to 3.208 kHz. That should be about = 4.92 H. Measured at 273V AC / 50 Hz, i'm getting 197 mA, so the actual = inductance is 4.0 H. A 6th stack and a variometer part is needed!=20 73, Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01D2336B.9F5C0190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Stefan,

 

Nicely done, efficient design for your high-quality = winding.

 

73,

 

Jim AA5BW

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of = DK7FC
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 9:01 AM
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: ULF: A new step on = the large ULF coil...

 

I got some = feedback that the link to the video wasn't working because Dropbox is = blocking the link, they say it causes to much traffic. Its overdue to = find an alternative!
Here's the link directly from the uni server = now: http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/20160702_222257.mp4
73, Stefan

Am 27.10.2016 12:28, schrieb DK7FC: =

Hi Luis,

Am 27.10.2016 = 11:40, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:

Am= azing work Stefan !! :-O

 

I = bet you have constructed some kind of support (like a lathe) which lets = you rotate the pipe easily and wound the coils . Right = ?

Right! See: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/ULF/20160702_222257.mp4=
It's quite comfortable but still a lot of = work.

Th= is is getting really heavy and the quality of coils looks very nice = and repeteable ...... at least five times ! ;-)

5 kg of copper wire so far. Still quite = managable.

 

Du= mb question: Why do you get different inductance values when resonating = it with antenna equivalent capacitor and when measuring current at 273V = AC / 50Hz  ??

Sh= ouldn't be inductance a constant value ? ...... or I'm missing something = obvious :(

It's due to the = inner-winding capacity which is higher than on a single layer coil. At = the self-resonance frequency you need no external C to get this = resonance, of course. Then add just 10 pF external C. The new resonance = frequency will be almost the same. If you calculate L from that = frequency and C, it will be a gigantic high value, several GH :-) =
Assume the internal C is 100 pF. And L is 4 H. Then f res will be = about 7.9577 kHz. With 10 pF external it will be 7.5874 kHz. If you = ignore the internal C and say "I'm getting 7.5874 kHz with just 10 = pF connected to the L" you would calculate L =3D 44 H!
So you = need to switch a much larger C in parallel to L so that the internal C = becomes irrelevant. Maybe 1 uF, then you will get 79.6 Hz at 4H. When = calculating L with 1.000001 uF (1uF + 100 pF) and 79.6 Hz you will get = 3.997 H, which is quite correct!
It doesn't need to be a resonated = circuit of course. You can also apply a constant voltage and simply = measure the current. But you need to know the DC resistance then. Then Z = =3D U/I =3D R^2 + XL^2 and L =3D XL / 314 (at 50 = Hz).


 

Go= od luck with the 6th floor. Seems that there is no room for a 7th, so = that's why you mentioned the variometer

I will first build the variometer now on a 16cm = diameter and 6cm high piece of tube. Will see what the tuning range is. = You know, actually i'm not a friend of calculations if i can do an = experiment instead :-)

73, Stefan

 

73= de Luis

EA= 5DOM

 

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: = mi=E9rcoles, 26 de octubre de 2016 19:06
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Asunto: Re: ULF: A new step on the large ULF = coil...

Hi ULF,

It's just a few weeks = ago, now the 5th stack is wound on the coil: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/ULF/20161026_185804.jpg=

The DC resistance rose from 445 Ohm to 572 = Ohm.
The measured resonance frequency (using the antenna = equivalent C in the shack) dropped from 3.667 kHz down to 3.208 = kHz. That should be about 4.92 H.
Measured at 273V AC / 50 = Hz, i'm getting 197 mA, so the actual inductance is 4.0 = H.

A 6th stack and a variometer part is needed!

73, = Stefan

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