Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.76]) by air-ma09.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMA093-b5364d5bf0d03bc; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:44:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 06F0A380001DC; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:44:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PpjX9-0001AF-Fd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:43:15 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PpjX8-0001A6-Kw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:43:14 +0000 Received: from out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.245]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PpjX6-0001fL-D7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:43:14 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AisBABZ/W01cB91z/2dsb2JhbACCSpBfA4Nvjkd0vC6FXgSBZZBq X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,480,1291593600"; d="scan'208,217";a="468757887" Received: from host-92-7-221-115.as43234.net (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.7.221.115]) by out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2011 15:43:05 +0000 Message-ID: <006b01cbcdf0$30d9b410$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <8E8D23D235D70840B6582917DF27898006935D3C@temps153538.tus.uk.thales> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:43:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: TA TONITE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0068_01CBCDF0.30994FB0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404c4d5bf0ce33c3 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01CBCDF0.30994FB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Radio amateurs do not have suitable calibrated equipment, suitable ant= ennas nor in most cases the expertise to carry out these measurements.= =20 Can you measure my ERP ? and if so what is it ? >From your statement I assume you are an expert and qualified to make= these measurements. I am frequently on 137.7 and 136.318 I now await your observations.=20 G3KEV =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Reeves Paul=20 To: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 3:24 PM Subject: RE: LF: TA TONITE Mal, The reference ...'especially by Radio Amateurs' could well be cons= idered offensive and is definitely not borne out by fact. I suppose th= at the only qualified people would be marine radio officers? I will not request a retraction - knowing you it would not be forthc= oming - but could you be a bit careful with sweeping generalisations= in the future? Paul G8GJA -----Original Message----- From: mal hamilton [mailto:g3kevmal@talktalk.net] Sent: 16 February 2011 15:03 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TA TONITE Toni It is all Guesswork trying to measure ERP some hundreds of miles= away. especially by Radio Amateurs. I have seen figures in the past and after a detailed mathematical= analysis the concluded statement was that this could be 6 dB either= way, in other words the erp measured could be 1W erp or maybe 4w erp= or even worse a lot less. Let them believe what they like hi g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: HB9ASB=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 1:08 PM Subject: Re: LF: TA TONITE Thanks Rik I've read somewhere that DCF39 has 40kW EIRP. So we would have= around 4W EIRP. Last week a station measured our field strength, 100k= m away and came to 0.4WEIRP. This is probably a little bit to low. Any= way, it shows me again, that most amateurs overestimate their ERP. Eve= n Mal has probably not the Watt he claims ;-) 73 de Toni 2011/2/16 Rik Strobbe Hello Toni, group, I measured the HE3OM signal 41dB down on DCF39. Distances to HE3OM (504km) and DCF39 (515km) are almost identi= cal. This might give the US stations a clue what signal strength th= ey can expect from HE3OM and what QRSS speed Tony could use to be copi= ed. 73, Rik ON7YD ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@b= lacksheep.org] namens HB9ASB [hb9asb@gmail.com] Verzonden: woensdag 16 februari 2011 8:44 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: TA TONITE Dear Jim, Mal and LF Group Unfortunately the tower is not nearby my house and I can't lea= ve the station running unattended. And the nights I can spend in Sotte= ns are limited by my health and my wife, hi. So there is no trial befo= re, I have just next Friday night. If I take a look at the reports we got in the past two weeks= from stations 2000-3000km away (always good audible), it should be po= ssible to span 6000km using QRSS10. On the receiving side, we may be able to see stations let's sa= y with QRSS60. This would mean, that we could make only one or two QSO= 's. May be it's better to try Crossband: we transmit in QRSS10 and lis= ten on 80m. This would give more stations the opportunity to contact= us. However, if there is a station from the East Coast we copy in QRS= S10 it would get the priority. What do you think about this approach? 73 de Toni 2011/2/15 James Moritz Dear Toni, LF Group, HE3OM has the advantage of a much stronger TX signal than mo= st Eu stations, so I guess you have a good chance of being copied in= NA on Friday night, unless the propagation is very poor. But as you= will have seen from the activity last weekend, forward planning is al= ways a good thing, especially where a single QSO takes hours. If possi= ble, I would suggest transmitting some beacon signals from HE3OM betwe= en now and Friday, so that North American stations can get a good idea= what QRSS speed can be copied from your station. Also, try to receive= any W/VE beacons that might be running, so that you also know what th= e requirement will be in the other direction. Finally, I have usually= found reception of US stations is best just before dawn here, so make= sure you are not going to be busy on Saturday! Good luck,=20 Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU=20 This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communicatio= n intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it= is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be pro= prietary or covered by legal professional privilege. If you have recei= ved this email in error, please notify the sender upon receipt, and im= mediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the busi= nesses of this company is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of= this company. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attac= hment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liabi= lity for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and wou= ld advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any= attachment. ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01CBCDF0.30994FB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Radio amateurs do not have suitable calib= rated=20 equipment, suitable antennas nor in most cases the expertise to carry= out these=20 measurements.
Can you measure my ERP ? and if so= what is it=20 ?
From  your statement I assume you are an= expert and=20 qualified to make these measurements.
I am frequently on 137.7 and 136.318 I no= w await your=20 observations.
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Reeves Paul
Sent: Wednesday, February 16,= 2011 3:24=20 PM
Subject: RE: LF: TA TONITE

Mal,
 
The=20 reference  ...'especially by Radio Amateurs'  could well= be=20 considered offensive and is definitely not borne out by fact. I supp= ose that=20 the only qualified people would be marine radio officers?
I=20 will not request a retraction - knowing you it would not be forthcom= ing - but=20 could you be a bit careful with sweeping generalisations in the=20 future?
 
Paul    G8GJA
-----Original Message-----
From:= mal hamilton=20 [mailto:g3kevmal@talktalk.net]
Sent: 16 February 2011=20 15:03
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF:=20 TA TONITE

Toni
It is all Guesswork trying to measure ERP= some=20 hundreds of miles away. especially by Radio Amateurs.
I have seen figures in the past and after= a detailed=20 mathematical analysis the concluded statement was that this could= be 6=20 dB either way, in other words the erp measured could be 1W erp or= maybe 4w=20 erp or even worse a lot less.
Let them believe what they like hi<= /DIV>
g3kev
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 HB9= ASB
Sent: Wednesday, February= 16, 2011=20 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: LF: TA TONIT= E

Thanks Rik
I've read somewhere that DCF39 has= 40kW EIRP.=20 So we would have around 4W EIRP. Last week a station measured ou= r field=20 strength, 100km away and came to 0.4WEIRP. This is probably a li= ttle bit=20 to low. Anyway, it shows me again, that most amateurs overestima= te their=20 ERP. Even Mal has probably not the Watt he claims ;-)
73 de= =20 Toni

2011/2/16 Rik Strobbe &= lt;Rik.Strobbe@= fys.kuleuven.be>
Hello Toni, group,
 
I measured=20 the HE3OM signal 41dB down on DCF39.
Distances to HE3OM (504km)= =20 and DCF39 (515km) are almost identical.
This might give the US stati= ons a clue=20 what signal strength they can expect from HE3OM and what QRSS= speed Tony=20 could use to be copied.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD
 
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens HB9ASB [= hb9asb@gmail.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 16=20 februari 2011 8:44
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re:=20 LF: TA TONITE

Dear Jim, Mal and LF Group

Unfortunately the tower= is not=20 nearby my house and I can't leave the station running unattend= ed. And=20 the nights I can spend in Sottens are limited by my health and= my wife,=20 hi. So there is no trial before, I have just next Friday night= .
If I=20 take a look at the reports we got in the past two weeks from= stations=20 2000-3000km away (always good audible), it should be possible= to span=20 6000km using QRSS10.
On the receiving side, we may be able= to see=20 stations let's say with QRSS60. This would mean, that we could= make only=20 one or two QSO's. May be it's better to try Crossband: we tran= smit in=20 QRSS10 and listen on 80m. This would give more stations the op= portunity=20 to contact us. However, if there is a station from the East Co= ast we=20 copy in QRSS10 it would get the priority.
What do you think= about=20 this approach?

73 de Toni

2011/2/15 James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com>
Dear=20 Toni, LF Group,

HE3OM has the advantage of a much str= onger TX=20 signal than most Eu stations, so I guess you have a good cha= nce of=20 being copied in NA on Friday night, unless the propagation= is very=20 poor. But as you will have seen from the activity last weeke= nd,=20 forward planning is always a good thing, especially where a= single QSO=20 takes hours. If possible, I would suggest transmitting some= beacon=20 signals from HE3OM between now and Friday, so that North Ame= rican=20 stations can get a good idea what QRSS speed can be copied= from your=20 station. Also, try to receive any W/VE beacons that might be= running,=20 so that you also know what the requirement will be in the ot= her=20 direction. Finally, I have usually found reception of US sta= tions is=20 best just before dawn here, so make sure you are not going= to be busy=20 on Saturday!

Good luck,=20

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU=20



This email, including any attachment,= is a=20 confidential communication intended solely for the use of the indivi= dual or=20 entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is pri= vate and=20 may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege. If yo= u have=20 received this email in error, please notify the sender upon receipt,= and=20 immediately delete it from your system.


Anything contained in this email that= is not=20 connected with the businesses of this company is neither endorsed by= nor is=20 the liability of this company.


Whilst we have taken reasonable preca= utions to=20 ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses,= we cannot=20 accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software vi= ruses, and=20 would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening= any=20 attachment.


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