Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-db05.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDB052-861f4c0e60163bc; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 11:21:58 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A26F138000126; Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OM0bi-0000ZK-Td for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 16:20:50 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OM0bi-0000ZB-9C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 16:20:50 +0100 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OM0bg-0006rP-52 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 16:20:50 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Al8FALv8DUxOk8/d/2dsb2JhbACBQ50Acb5NgleCPwQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.53,384,1272841200"; d="scan'208,217";a="293924128" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.207.221]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 08 Jun 2010 16:20:40 +0100 Message-ID: <006a01cb071e$25de2580$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <002001cb070c$99d44b20$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> ,<004201cb0713$7c295e10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <02c701cb071b$26cbc130$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 16:20:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: RE: RE: Re: RE: COIL WINDING THOUGHT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01CB0726.87753BF0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4c0e601346d1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01CB0726.87753BF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GAME UP but see Rik's figures for Belden 8 core cable, 8.5 mA for 300v so 85m= A for 3,000v, 850mA for 30,000v, 8.5A for 300,000v You should be alright about 8A with a safety margin!! If I see smoke= and hear a bang I will know that you mean business. You could save yourself a lot of winding mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James Cowburn=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: 'Chris Osborn'=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 3:59 PM Subject: LF: RE: RE: Re: RE: COIL WINDING THOUGHT I think we'll do the single layer route and thus be readily upgradea= ble, rather than risk setting fire to Chris' shed and my garage!! B (o= r perhaps Mal, that was your evil plan all along..??!!!! J ) =20 =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group= @blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe Sent: 08 June 2010 15:20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: COIL WINDING THOUGHT =20 Just had a look at a roll of 8 stranded wire (Belden) : it is rated= 300Vrms Assuming an antenna capacitance of 500pF (=3D 35kOhm at 9kHz) you= only need 8.5mA through the coil to generate 300V. =20 73, Rik ON7YD =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] namens mal hamilton [g3kevmal@talktalk.net] Verzonden: dinsdag 8 juni 2010 16:04 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: Re: RE: COIL WINDING THOUGHT Jim and Co will hardly be involved with 30kv more like 3kv or less They will let us know g3kev =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rik Strobbe=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:47 PM Subject: LF: RE: COIL WINDING THOUGHT =20 Beware of the very high voltages between the strands. Stefan mentioned up to 30kV loading coil voltage, I guess even a= fraction of this voltage will cause arcing between the strands In addition the high stray capacitance will reduce the Q. =20 73, Rik ON7YD =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] namens mal hamilton [g3kevmal@talktalk.net] Verzonden: dinsdag 8 juni 2010 15:15 Aan: rsgb Onderwerp: LF: COIL WINDING THOUGHT All vlf men Instead of winding miles of single strand insulated wire to achive= the required inductance, use instead insulated multi strand wire and= series the strands, normally the individual strands have coloured ins= ulation and convenient to connect in series. also gather up all the ferrite cores you can find put into a suitable= container and insert into coil. The above idea might save some coil winding time. =20 another thouight while I am composing =20 Litz wire. =20 Get hold of some old Decca coils ( I have a couple) find the begin= ning and end and do the same as above, this however is more difficult= although individually insulated they are all the same colour, but wit= h a meter to identify each strand it can be done =20 de mal/g3kev =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01CB0726.87753BF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
GAME UP
 
but see Rik's figures for Belden 8 co= re cable,=20  8.5 mA for 300v so 85mA for  3,000v, 850mA for 30,000v, 8.5= A for=20 300,000v
You should be alright about 8A= with a safety=20 margin!! If I see smoke and hear a bang I will know that you mean=20 business.
You could save yourself a lot of=20 winding
mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010= 3:59=20 PM
Subject: LF: RE: RE: Re: RE:= COIL WINDING=20 THOUGHT

I thin= k we=92ll do the=20 single layer route and thus be readily upgradeable, rather than risk= setting=20 fire to Chris=92 shed and my garage!! B (or perhaps Mal, that was yo= ur evil plan=20 all along=85.??!!!!   J=20 )

&= nbsp;

 =

<= FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group= @blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] On= Behalf Of Rik Strobbe
Sent: 08 June 2010 15:20
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g
Sub= ject: LF: RE: Re: RE: COIL WINDING=20 THOUGHT

 

Just= had a look=20 at a roll of 8 stranded wire (Belden) : it is rated=20 300Vrms

Ass= uming=20  an= antenna=20 capacitance of 500pF (=3D 35kOhm at 9kHz) you only need 8.5mA throug= h the coil=20 to generate 300V.

&nbs= p;

73,= Rik =20 ON7YD=

&nbs= p;

<= FONT face=3DTahoma color=3Dblack size=3D1>

Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= /st1:PersonName>] namens mal hamilton=20 [g3kevmal@talktalk.net]
= Verzonden: dinsdag 8 juni 2010=20 16:04
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: LF= : Re: RE: COIL WINDING=20 THOUGHT

Jim= and Co will=20 hardly be involved with 30kv more like 3kv or less

They= will let us=20 know=

g3kev=

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

-= ---- Original=20 Message -----

From: Rik Strobbe=20

= Sent: Tuesday, June 08,=20 2010 2:47 PM

= Subject: LF: RE: COIL=20 WINDING THOUGHT

=  

= Beware of the very=20 high voltages between the strands.

Stefan mentioned=20 up to 30kV loading coil voltage, I guess even a fraction of this= voltage=20 will cause arcing between the strands

In addition the=20 high stray capacitance will reduce the Q.

=

=  

73, Rik =20 ON7YD

=  

Van: owner-rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org] namens mal=20 hamilton<= /st1:City>=20 [g3kevmal@talktalk.net]
Verzonden: dinsdag 8 juni 2010=20 15:15
Aan: rsgb=
Onderwerp:= LF: COIL WINDING=20 THOUGHT=

A= ll vlf=20 men

I= nstead of winding=20 miles of single strand insulated wire to achive the required induc= tance, use=20 instead insulated multi strand wire and series the strands, normal= ly the=20 individual strands have coloured insulation and convenient to conn= ect in=20 series.=

a= lso

g= ather up all the=20 ferrite cores you can find put into a suitable container and inser= t into=20 coil.

T= he above idea=20 might save some coil winding time.

=  

a= nother thouight=20 while I am composing

=  

L= itz=20 wire.

=  

G= et hold of some=20 old Decca coils ( I have a couple) find the beginning and end and= do the=20 same as above, this however is more difficult although individuall= y=20 insulated they are all the same colour, but with a meter to identi= fy each=20 strand it can be done

=  

d= e=20 mal/g3kev= =  

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