Return-Path: Received: from rly-dc01.mx.aol.com (rly-dc01.mail.aol.com [172.19.136.30]) by air-dc05.mail.aol.com (v123.3) with ESMTP id MAILINDC053-b0249b40d6119c; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:24:50 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-dc01.mx.aol.com (v123.3) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDC016-b0249b40d6119c; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 14:24:35 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LgNfh-0000QF-Ko for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 18:24:21 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LgNfg-0000Q6-It for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 18:24:20 +0000 Received: from ttsmtp-1.cpwnetworks.com ([62.24.128.242] helo=ttsmtp.cpwnetworks.com) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LgNfe-0000zL-UJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2009 18:24:20 +0000 X-Path: TalkTalk-smtp X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtkHAJeqs0lZ8Lap/2dsb2JhbACCJCyBaM5YgkeBPgY Received: from unknown (HELO mal769a60aa920) ([89.240.182.169]) by ttsmtp.cpwnetworks.com with SMTP; 08 Mar 2009 18:23:59 +0000 Message-ID: <006101c9a01b$0d14fc10$0301a8c0@mal769a60aa920> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <0566EF6DE20B4249A3E74859BF9BA2C6@AGB> <9C03FBF153AB478A9B0DBC5580CF20D2@AGB> <28FA0F184B25444F8BA2F1EC5FC42C04@AGB> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 18:23:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working ! Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01C9A01B.0C8F7860" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C9A01B.0C8F7860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MF Do not forget the QRM aspect to other MF users when using PULSE transmission= s, also QRM to other services outside the amateur allocation on 500 khz G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Beckmann, Gerhard=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 5:49 PM Subject: AW: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working ! Hi Graham, =20 Thank you for your statement! Well actually, especially Scattergram or equal measurement methods would b= e of interest regarding the aspect of signal path monitoring. (direct wave /= sky wave via cross correlation of pulse delay values). However, the aspect of interferences by using 500us pulses has to be taken= into consideration but may be there are coming up suitable solution by the=20= LF-group.=20 Another method of monitoring the signal path on 500 kHz could possibly per= formed by using the "PSK Sounder" software from ZL2AFP. And what I saw on a=20= first glance it should be usable for transmission and reception in order to=20= monitor the signal path situation. =20 By the way:=20 Do you know if Andy is continuing the Multi-function beaconing on 503.7 kH= z? In this case I would try long term signal monitoring by GB3RAL.exe and PSK= message decoding within the next evening sessions. =20 vy 73 de Gerhard / DK6NI =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org] Im Auftrag von Graham Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. M=E4rz 2009 15:36 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working ! =20 Hi, Grerhard, =20 Andy's post about the new beacon came out of the blue, (as is the signal= hihi), Working on this, I've simply added a page to the uk500khz news gro= up and posted links about to generate some interest and make sure the beaco= n details are known to hams and swl's out side this reflector ..=20 =20 The only thing that occurs to me is that there is a possibility for recep= tion reports to be directed to the 5 meg group , I note that the graph gen= erator by G4IRX requests your call and locator before processing the file=20= and presenting you with a plot. so I will see if anything can be done to pr= event this , the data format is of course distorted by having only one activ= e beacon.. so it will show up .. but may as yet be unexpected ...! =20 I note from previous email that the pulse aspect of the beacon is require= d for precise measurements, I think that may be possible to set up a 'experi= ment' but the aspect of interference to other users may be significant, An= dy has referred to the concept of 'phase reversal' in a continues carrier sy= stem (or medium pulse ?) that would perhaps be a acceptable mode of modulati= on, weather it could be transmitted by a 'normal' transmitter im note sure ,= but its worth noting that activities on 500, to date are not 'funded' as s= uch and time and capital out lay are part of the 'hobby' and such hardware r= equirements and software re-writes are beyond many of the active stations.=20= but perhaps as interest spreads .. things may change ..?=20 =20 Tnx-=20 =20 Graham =20 G0NBD IO83LK =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Beckmann, Gerhard=20 Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:06 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: 'Robert Hemesley'=20 Subject: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working ! =20 Hello Graham, Hello Andy,=20 =20 reading about your activities concerning Multi-function beacon I tried yes= terday evening to catch your signals, but unfortunately with no results copy= ing your sig. May be condx were not good enough. Moreover I had some bad ma= nmade QRM from TV and PC. =20 As Rob Hemesley told you I am active in 5-MHz-beaco- monitoring spec= ially concerning scattergram monitoring in order to analyse signal path sit= uation (direct wave / sky wave behaviour). But I am running both analysis software, GB3RAL.exe and Scattergram.= exe and it would not be any problem to modify the internal PC-clock speciall= y regarding GB3RAL.exe in order to analyse the long term signal level of you= r Multi-function beacon. So I will try to continue monitoring your Multi-fun= ction beacon hopefully that condx will be better in the next evening session= s (hi). If there will be Scattergram acties in future I certainly need some=20= more dB signal level, but it would be very interesting to investigate the si= gnal path situation. Of course, this is more interesting for those participants who are l= ocated in a distance range between 150 and 300 km in order to monitor the sl= ide crossover from direct wave to sky wave signal path.=20 However, thank you very much for implementation of your very intere= sting Multi-function beacon project and I will keep on running my monitoring= activities and will inform you in any case about further results. =20 vy 73 and a lot of success by running Multi-function beacons, I will be "o= n the qui vive" !!! =20 de Gerhard / DK6NI (JN59LN) =20 By the way:=20 Dial frequency 505.2 kHz, is that o.k.? (because GB3RAL.exe is decoding wi= th 1500 Hz too). For BPSK31-decoding I am using DigiPan Vers.2.0 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org] Im Auftrag von Graham Gesendet: Samstag, 7. M=E4rz 2009 23:46 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working ! =20 So far so good .. quite a step up in signal round 2100 hrs =20 no frequency decode before then , 15 db over noise at 2130 =20 but a trend showing=20 about 1 hour slow qsb=20 =20 any other reports ? =20 G ..=20 =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1988 - Release Date: 03/06/09=20= 19:17:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release Date: 03/07/09=20= 18:43:00 ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C9A01B.0C8F7860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MF
Do not forget the QRM aspect to other MF us= ers when=20 using PULSE transmissions, also QRM to other services outside the amate= ur=20 allocation on 500 khz
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
Beckmann, Gerhard
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 5:49=20 PM
Subject: AW: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi-fu= nction=20 beacon ... Its working !

Hi=20 Graham,

 

Thank you for your=20 statement!

Well actually,=20 especially Scattergram or equal measurement methods would be of interest=20 regarding the aspect of signal path monitoring. (direct wave / sky wave vi= a=20 cross correlation of pulse delay values).

However, the aspect=20 of interferences by using 500us pulses has to be taken into consideration=20= but=20 may be there are coming up suitable solution by the LF-group.=20

Another method of=20 monitoring the signal path on 500 kHz could possibly performed by using th= e=20 =93PSK Sounder=94 software from ZL2AFP. And what I saw on a first glance i= t should=20 be usable for transmission and reception in order to monitor the signal pa= th=20 situation.

 

By the way:=20

Do you know if Andy=20 is continuing the Multi-function beaconing on 503.7=20 kHz?

In this case I would=20 try long term signal monitoring by GB3RAL.exe and PSK message decoding wit= hin=20 the next evening sessions.

 

vy 73 de Gerhard /=20 DK6NI

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

 

=  <= /FONT>

Von:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ] Im Auftrag von <= /SPAN>Graham
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. M=E4rz 2009=20 15:36
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: Re: LF: AW: 503.7 Multi= -function=20 beacon ... Its working !

 

Hi,=20 Grerhard,

 

Andy's post about the  new=20 beacon came out of the  blue, (as is the signal hihi), Working on thi= s,=20  I've simply added a page to the  uk500khz news group and posted= =20 links about to  generate some interest and make sure the=20 beacon details are known to hams and swl's out side this reflector ..= =20

 

The only thing that occurs=20 to  me is that there is a possibility for reception reports to be&nbs= p;=20 directed to the 5 meg group , I note that the  graph generator by=20 G4IRX  requests your call and locator  before processing the fil= e=20 and presenting you with a plot. so I will see if anything can be done to&n= bsp;=20 prevent this , the data format is of course distorted by having only one=20 active beacon.. so it will show up .. but may as yet be unexpected=20 ...!

 

I note from previous email that=20 the pulse aspect of the  beacon is required for precise measurements,= I=20 think that may be possible to set up a 'experiment'  but the aspect o= f=20 interference to  other users may be significant, Andy has referred to= the=20 concept of 'phase reversal' in a continues carrier system (or medium pulse= ?)=20 that would perhaps be a acceptable mode of modulation, weather it could be= =20 transmitted by a 'normal' transmitter im note sure , but its worth noting=20= that=20 activities on 500, to date  are not 'funded' as such and time and cap= ital=20 out lay are part of the 'hobby' and such hardware requirements  and=20 software re-writes are beyond many of the active stations. but perhaps as=20 interest spreads .. things may change ..?

 

Tnx-=20

 

Graham

 

G0NBD

IO83LK

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent: Sunday,=20 March 08, 2009 11:06 AM

Subject:<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> LF: AW:=20 503.7 Multi-function beacon ... Its working=20 !

 

Hello Graham, Hello Andy,=20

 <= /P>

reading about your activities=20 concerning Multi-function beacon I tried yesterday evening to catch your=20 signals, but unfortunately with no results copying your sig. May be condx=20= were=20 not good enough.  Moreover I had some bad manmade QRM from TV and=20 PC.

 <= /P>

      A= s=20 Rob Hemesley told you I am active in 5-MHz-beaco- monitoring specially=20 concerning  scattergram monitoring in order to analyse signal path=20 situation (direct wave / sky wave behaviour).

      B= ut=20 I am running both analysis software, GB3RAL.exe and Scattergram.exe and it= =20 would not be any problem to modify the internal PC-clock specially regardi= ng=20 GB3RAL.exe in order to analyse the long term signal level of your=20 Multi-function beacon. So I will try to continue monitoring your=20 Multi-function beacon hopefully that condx will be better in the next even= ing=20 sessions (hi).

      I= f=20 there will be Scattergram acties in future I certainly need some more dB=20 signal level, but it would be very interesting to investigate the signal p= ath=20 situation.

      O= f=20 course, this is more interesting for those participants who are located in= a=20 distance range between 150 and 300 km in order to monitor the slide crosso= ver=20 from direct wave to sky wave signal path.

  =20     However, thank you very much for implementation of= =20 your very interesting Multi-function beacon project and I will keep on run= ning=20 my monitoring activities and will inform you in any case about further=20 results.

 <= /P>

vy 73 and a lot of success by=20 running Multi-function beacons, I will be =93on the qui vive=94=20 !!!

 <= /P>

de Gerhard  / =20 DK6NI  (JN59LN)

 <= /P>

By the way:=20

Dial frequency 505.2 kHz, is tha= t=20 o.k.? (because GB3RAL.exe is decoding with 1500 Hz=20 too).

For BPSK31-decoding I am using=20 DigiPan Vers.2.0

 <= /P>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

 

=  

Von:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ] Im Auftrag von <= /SPAN>Graham
Gesendet: Samstag, 7. M=E4rz 2009=20 23:46
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: LF: 503.7 Multi-functio= n beacon=20 ... Its working !

 

So far so good .. quite a step up=20 in signal round 2100 hrs 

no frequency decode before then ,=20 15 db over noise at 2130

 

but a trend showing=20

about  1 hour slow qsb=20

 

any other reports=20 ?

 

G ..=20

 


No virus found in this incoming=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus=20 Database: 270.11.9/1988 - Release Date: 03/06/09=20 19:17:00


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1989 - Release= =20 Date: 03/07/09 18:43:00
------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C9A01B.0C8F7860--