Return-Path: Received: from rly-dc04.mx.aol.com (rly-dc04.mail.aol.com [172.19.136.33]) by air-dc07.mail.aol.com (v123.3) with ESMTP id MAILINDC074-b1a49bec85412c; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:45:19 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-dc04.mx.aol.com (v123.3) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDC046-b1a49bec85412c; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:44:53 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LjKbu-0006nL-In for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:44:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LjKbt-0006nC-Gx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:44:37 +0000 Received: from mk-filter-3-a-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.100.54]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LjKbq-0002Hu-EC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:44:37 +0000 X-Trace: 165001531/mk-filter-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com/B2C/$b2c-THROTTLED-DYNAMIC/b2c-CUSTOMER-DYNAMIC-IP/88.106.59.96/None/g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 88.106.59.96 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk X-MUA: Microsoft Office Outlook 11Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah0IADplvklYajtg/2dsb2JhbACCJC1TRIU5fYNciGe+RAeCLoFKBoc2 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,375,1233532800"; d="scan'208,217";a="165001531" Received: from 88-106-59-96.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (HELO asus) ([88.106.59.96]) by smtp.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 16 Mar 2009 21:44:30 +0000 From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: References: <009001c9a588$7eb02c60$6401a8c0@asus> <00e001c9a5a7$f07216a0$6401a8c0@asus> <826BA6086575402A8C87062492069F5A@AGB> <004501c9a623$a4bf81d0$6401a8c0@asus> <2ED02F4327204E3C903828F9E18AA72B@AGB> <001e01c9a665$ebeac870$6401a8c0@asus> <00be01c9a66e$c8bfdbc0$0900a8c0@AM> <004a01c9a677$2a8b48a0$6401a8c0@asus> <005101c9a679$df148f50$6401a8c0@asus> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:44:30 -0000 Message-ID: <005f01c9a680$636296c0$6401a8c0@asus> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcmmfuCJOLBY/rPFSW65Ert93bteswAAJ4sQ X-Karma: unknown: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: RE: Syncback software Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0060_01C9A680.636296C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C9A680.636296C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy, I inserted 10dB for the 2104 Tx & then 20dB but at the 2119 Tx there was a very deep fade (QSB) which I also noted on a separate Rx. I will leave it at 20dB for a longer period. Recent levels as below :- 20:45 65.81 40.29 -240.0 1499.7 20:46 43.87 40.29 -240.0 0.0 20:47 43.36 40.29 -240.0 0.0 21:00 58.08 32.23 -240.0 1499.8 21:01 37.72 32.23 -240.0 0.0 21:02 34.32 32.23 -240.0 0.0 21:15 32.47 25.55 -240.0 0.0 21:16 28.19 25.55 -240.0 0.0 21:17 31.14 25.55 -240.0 0.0 21:30 58.90 27.07 -240.0 1499.7 21:31 28.89 27.07 -240.0 0.0 21:32 28.86 27.07 -240.0 0.0 Cheers, Gary. _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Andy Talbot Sent: 16 March 2009 21:03 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software Don't destroy your noise figure though. But at HF you can probably get away with 20 dB at least. Andy G4JNT www.g4jnt.com 2009/3/16 Gary - G4WGT Andy, OK, I will insert an attenuator at the antenna socket (that's an easy move) & watch how it performs. It is switched at 10dB steps so I will start at 10db of course. Cheers, Gary. _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Andy Talbot Sent: 16 March 2009 20:45 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software Doesn't matter which - just total system gain. That S/W works best if the noise threshold rides at about 10dB above the baseline, then it allows for up to 70 - 80dB of signal peaks. Andy G4JNT www.g4jnt.com 2009/3/16 Gary - G4WGT Alan, When you wrote :- my only comment is that you may have too much gain in the system. Are you meaning sound card or receiver gain? Gary. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Alan Melia Sent: 16 March 2009 19:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software Hi Gary my only comment is that you may have too much gain in the system. It is sometimes better to have the noise further down nearer the axis. I am afraid there is a major problem with this kind of beacon, when the fading period is shorter than the sampling interval, so you dont really know what the path is doing. The only reliable points are the peaks, the troughs dont really mean anything without some very sophisticated analysis and probably two spaced receivers. However it does give a snapshot of the band without taking up too much bandwidth (this was what was required for 5MHz too). Despite all the data collected very little analysis has actually be done on the 5MHz data collected by this program. The one succesfull bit of work was that published in Radcom by Marcis Walden G0IJZ. I used it for some time whilst Andy was testing the Poldhu beacon on 160m and also during the 1st two months that ran. I was certainly surprised by the daytime path on 160m from here. I have seen the data collected in Canada via Joe Craig VO1NA and it is difficult to see how to use it. Still if you dont collect the data you will never know!! Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: RE: LF: RE: Syncback software > Hi Graham, LF, > > > > The original HTML Code for the 2 minute refresh is still inserted into the > page format, so upload is 30 minute intervals with Syncback & 2 minute > refresh. I have left the refresh in case I revert back to the original > grabber page. I will look at changing it if I continue to use the beacon > chart upload. > > > > I would like to have feedback from the LF group regarding the page, if you > check it out periodically, is it useful to you, what are you looking for. > > > > You can view the chart on my web site at :- > > > > http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/grabber3.html > > > > 73 > > > > Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > _____ > > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham > Sent: 16 March 2009 17:20 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software > > > > Hi Gary, > > > > The page seemed to refresh quite often ... are there two settings ? > > > > G .. > > > > From: Gary - G4WGT > > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:40 AM > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Subject: RE: LF: RE: Syncback software > > > > Hi Graham, LF, > > > > You wrote :- > > >>>Upload is set at 5 minute intervals and auto refresh at 2 minute > intervals. <<< that could be backed off to 15 mins as the beacon only > sends every 15 ?? > > > > I mentioned in my previous mail to ignore the text on the page as it was > originally for grabber 1 for when I upgrade the web site (to a new design & > better navigation etc), also mentioned is that upload is every 30 minutes. > > > > If the uploaded chart proves useful or interesting to operators & viewers > then I will change the text & make it a permanent feature for the > foreseeable future. > > > > BTW :- > > > > For those of you who are not familiar with the chart - > > > > The RED trace is Andy's (G4JNT) beacon signal & the BLACK trace is the noise > level at my QTH. > > > > The Blue & GREEN are not in use & should be ignored on this chart as they > are for the other beacons used when monitoring on the 5MHz allocation. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Gary - G4WGT > > > > > > _____ > > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham > Sent: 15 March 2009 22:17 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software > > > > Gary.. > > > > That looks good ... 0500 looks best time for a qso .. see you then Smile > emoticon > > > > >>>Upload is set at 5 minute intervals and auto refresh at 2 minute > intervals. <<< that could be backed off to 15 mins as the beacon only > sends every 15 ?? > > > > the 15 db over the noise in day time is the same at this qth .. looks like > the big dips round 1900 where just when we where testing .. typical hihi > > > > tnx- G .. > > > > From: Gary - G4WGT > > Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:55 PM > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Subject: LF: RE: Syncback software > > > > LF, > > > > I have now got the software, Syncback running correctly (I think). > > > > The purpose of this is to upload the chart from Andy's beacon as received > here to my web site periodically, ie. every 30 minutes. > > > > I now have a receiver running 24/7 monitoring Andy,s beacon on 503.7KHz. > > > > You can view the chart on my web site at :- > > > > http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/grabber3.html > > > > For the moment ignore the text on the page as it is originally designed to > use with the 500KHz grabber when I renew my web site design. If it is a > useful upload I will make it a permanent feature but may have to extend the > frequency coverage of grabber 1 so not to overload the PC with operations > which will cause the PC to struggle. > > > > Let me have your comments please. > > > > 73 > > > > Gary - G4WGT. > > > > _____ > > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT > Sent: 15 March 2009 16:10 > To: LF -RSGB LF Group > Subject: LF: Syncback software > > > > Hi LF, > > > > If anyone is using Syncback software & can help, please. > > > > I am tying to upload a file to my website who's filename does not change, > only the file size changes. I tried to do it with Argo-upload but failed so > I downloaded Syncback & still failing. > > > > Syncback gives me the following message :- > > > > ********************************** > > Can connect, but unable to change to destination directory: > > /chart01.bmp:not a directory > > ********************************** > > The Syncback help does not give me the answer. > > > > Any help will be appreciated > > > > Or > > > > Will Argo-Upload do it? > > > > Or > > > > Is there something else to do it? > > > > Thanks in anticipation, > > > > 73, > > > > Gary - G4WGT - IO83QP. > > > > _____ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 > 06:54:00 > > _____ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2003 - Release Date: 03/15/09 > 14:07:00 > > ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C9A680.636296C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Andy,

&nb= sp;

I inserted 10dB for the 2104 Tx & then 20dB but at the 2119 Tx there was a very deep fade (QSB) which I also noted on a separate Rx. I will leave it at 20dB for a longer period.

&nb= sp;

Recent l= evels as below :-

&nb= sp;

20:45&nb= sp; 65.81  40.29  -240.0  1499.7

20:46&nb= sp; 43.87  40.29  -240.0  0.0

20:47&nb= sp; 43.36  40.29  -240.0  0.0

21:00&nb= sp; 58.08  32.23  -240.0  1499.8

21:01&nb= sp; 37.72  32.23  -240.0  0.0

21:02&nb= sp; 34.32  32.23  -240.0  0.0

21:15&nb= sp; 32.47  25.55  -240.0  0.0

21:16&nb= sp; 28.19  25.55  -240.0  0.0

21:17&nb= sp; 31.14  25.55  -240.0  0.0

21:30&nb= sp; 58.90  27.07  -240.0  1499.7

21:31&nb= sp; 28.89  27.07  -240.0  0.0

21:32&nb= sp; 28.86  27.07  -240.0  0.0

&nb= sp;

Cheers,&= nbsp; Gary.

&nb= sp;

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Andy Talbot
Sent: 16 March 2009 21:03
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software

 

Don't destroy your noise figure though.  But at HF y= ou can probably get away with 20 dB at least.


Andy  G4JNT
www.g4jnt.com

2009/3/16 Gary - G4WGT <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>

Andy,

 <= o:p>

OK, I will insert an atte= nuator at the antenna socket (that’s an easy move) & watch how it perform= s. It is switched at 10dB steps so I will start at 10db of course.

 <= o:p>

Cheers,=

 <= o:p>

Gary.

 <= o:p>

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Andy Talbot
Sent: 16 March 2009 20:45


To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software

=  

= Doesn't matter which - just total system gain.  That S/W works best if the nois= e threshold rides at about 10dB above the baseline,  then it allows for u= p to 70 - 80dB of signal peaks.


Andy  G4JNT
www.g4jnt.com

= 2009/3/16 Gary - G4WGT <g4= wgt@tiscali.co.uk>

= Alan,

When you wrote :-

my only comment is that you may have too much= gain in the system.

= Are you meaning sound card or receiver gain?

Gary.

=

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org

= [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Alan Melia
Sent: 16 March 2009 19:38

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software

Hi Gary=20= my only comment is that you may have too much gain in the system. It
is sometimes better to have the noise further down nearer the axis.

I am afraid there is a major problem with this kind of beacon, when the
fading period is shorter than the sampling interval, so you dont really know=
what the path is doing. The only reliable points are the peaks, the troughs<= br> dont really mean anything without some very sophisticated analysis and
probably two spaced receivers. However it does give a snapshot of the band without taking up too much bandwidth (this was what was required for 5MHz too). Despite all the data collected very little analysis has actually be done on the 5MHz data collected by this program. The one succesfull bit of work was that published in Radcom by Marcis Walden G0IJZ. I used it for some=
time whilst Andy was testing the Poldhu beacon on 160m and also during the 1st two months that ran. I was certainly surprised by the daytime path on 160m from here. I have seen the data collected in Canada via=20= Joe Craig VO1NA
and it is difficult to see how to use it.

Still if you dont collect the data you will never know!!

Alan G3NYK




----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <rs= gb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: LF: RE: Syncback software


> Hi Graham, LF,
>
>
>
> The original HTML Code for the 2 minute refresh is still inserted into=20= the
> page format, so upload is 30 minute intervals with Syncback & 2 min= ute
> refresh. I have left the refresh in case I revert back to the original<= br> > grabber page. I will look at changing it if I continue to use the beaco= n
> chart upload.
>
>
>
> I would like to have feedback from the LF group regarding the page, if=20= you
> check it out periodically, is it useful to you, what are you looking fo= r.
>
>
>
> You can view the chart on my web site at :-
>
>
>
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/grabber3.html
>
>
>
> 73
>
>
>
> Gary - G4WGT.
>
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham
> Sent: 16 March 2009 17:20
> To: r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software
>
>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
>
>
> The page seemed to  refresh quite often ... are there two settings= ?
>
>
>
> G ..
>
>
>
> From: Gary - G4WGT <mailto:g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:40 AM
>
> To: r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>
> Subject: RE: LF: RE: Syncback software
>
>
>
> Hi Graham, LF,
>
>
>
> You wrote :-
>
> >>>Upload is set at 5 minute intervals and auto refresh at 2 minute
> intervals. <<< that could be backed off to  15 mins as th= e beacon only
> sends every 15 ??
>
>
>
> I mentioned in my previous mail to ignore the text on the page as it wa= s
> originally for grabber 1 for when I upgrade the web site (to a new desi= gn
&
> better navigation etc), also mentioned is that upload is every 30 minut= es.
>
>
>
> If the uploaded chart proves useful or interesting to operators & viewers
> then I will change the text & make it a permanent feature for the > foreseeable future.
>
>
>
> BTW :-
>
>
>
> For those of you  who are not familiar with the chart -
>
>
>
> The RED trace is Andy's (G4JNT) beacon signal & the BLACK trace is=20= the
noise
> level at my QTH.
>
>
>
> The Blue & GREEN are not in use & should be ignored on this cha= rt as they
> are for the other beacons used when monitoring on the 5MHz allocation.<= br> >
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Gary - G4WGT
>
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham
> Sent: 15 March 2009 22:17
> To: r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Subject: Re: LF: RE: Syncback software
>
>
>
> Gary..
>
>
>
> That looks good  ... 0500 looks best time for a qso .. see you the= n Smile
> emoticon
>
>
>
> >>>Upload is set at 5 minute intervals and auto refresh at 2 minute
> intervals. <<< that could be backed off to  15 mins as th= e beacon only
> sends every 15 ??
>
>
>
> the  15 db over the noise in day time is the  same at this qt= h ... looks
like
> the big dips round 1900  where just when we where testing ..  typical hihi
>
>
>
> tnx- G ..
>
>
>
> From: Gary - G4WGT <mailto:g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:55 PM
>
> To: r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>
> Subject: LF: RE: Syncback software
>
>
>
> LF,
>
>
>
> I have now got the software, Syncback running correctly (I think).
>
>
>
> The purpose of this is to upload the chart from Andy's beacon as receiv= ed
> here to my web site periodically, ie. every 30 minutes.
>
>
>
> I now have a receiver running 24/7 monitoring Andy,s beacon on 503.7KHz= .
>
>
>
> You can view the chart on my web site at :-
>
>
>
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/grabber3.html
>
>
>
> For the moment ignore the text on the page as it is originally designed= to
> use with the 500KHz grabber when I renew my web site design. If it is a=
> useful upload I will make it a permanent feature but may have to extend=
the
> frequency coverage of grabber 1 so not to overload the PC with operatio= ns
> which will cause the PC to struggle.
>
>
>
> Let me have your comments please.
>
>
>
> 73
>
>
>
> Gary - G4WGT.
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT
> Sent: 15 March 2009 16:10
> To: LF -RSGB LF Group
> Subject: LF: Syncback software
>
>
>
> Hi LF,
>
>
>
> If anyone is using Syncback software & can help, please.
>
>
>
> I am tying to upload a file to my website who's filename does not chang= e,
> only the file size changes. I tried to do it with Argo-upload but faile= d
so
> I downloaded Syncback & still failing.
>
>
>
> Syncback gives me the following message :-
>
>
>
> **********************************
>
> Can connect, but unable to change to destination directory:
>
> /chart01.bmp:not a directory
>
> **********************************
>
> The Syncback help does not give me the answer.
>
>
>
> Any help will be appreciated
>
>
>
> Or
>
>
>
> Will Argo-Upload do it?
>
>
>
> Or
>
>
>
> Is there something else to do it?
>
>
>
> Thanks in anticipation,
>
>
>
> 73,
>
>
>
> Gary - G4WGT - IO83QP.
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.= avg.com
> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14= /09
> 06:54:00
>
>   _____
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.= avg.com
> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2003 - Release Date: 03/15= /09
> 14:07:00
>
>

=  

 

------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C9A680.636296C0--