X-GM-THRID: 1212409830910288796 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf X-Gmail-Received: 80f0e87fbd8e5f5a4f498488254ddcb6cb49b391 Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.249.16 with SMTP id w16cs241269qbh; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 07:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.91.6 with SMTP id t6mr543940nfl; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 07:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id o9si639422nfa.2006.08.22.07.59.33; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 07:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (gmail.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1GFXeB-0006MW-GF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:54:31 +0100 Received: from [193.82.59.130] (helo=relay2.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1GFXeA-0006MN-Hp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:54:30 +0100 Received: from ptb-relay02.plus.net ([212.159.14.213]) by relay2.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.51) id 1GFXe6-00015f-4v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:54:30 +0100 Received: from [212.159.90.113] (helo=Hugh) by ptb-relay02.plus.net with smtp (Exim) id 1GFXdv-0000nr-3b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:54:15 +0100 Message-ID: <003e01c6c5fa$d5d9bb70$1f03210a@Hugh> From: "Hugh_m0wye" To: References: <6.1.1.1.2.20060822114640.03691bb0@pop3.casema.nl> Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:53:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,AWL=-0.029,HTML_30_40=0.056,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Alarming message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01C6C603.2C5223E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4467 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C6C603.2C5223E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dick, 1. Was there not a similar scare a few years ago about ionospheric = warming casued by HAARP experiments etc. ? 2. Pat g4gvw makes very valid objections in his E-mail, matters which = seem to be dismissed as "societal not scientific" in the paper by = C.J.Roger et. al. ... "In the extreme, and hopefully unlikely case of a HANE (High Altitude = Nuclear Explosion), the disruption caused during RBR operation would = probably be viewed as acceptable. However, this might not be the case = for an RBRoperating to flush an intense natural injection, although is = clearly a societal rather than a scientific matter." 3. The supposed disruption to satelites caused by a HANE seems to be = based on what happened to Telstar and similar vintage space-craft. = Surely satelite design has progressed since then, with better shielding = and "radiation hardened" devices being used. If satelites are more = robust then much of the reason for using RBR evaporates. 4. There doesn't seem to be much discussion of what effect such a high = level VLF field would have directly, it all seems to be about HF = communication.=20 Just some thoughts ... 73 Hugh M0WYE ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dick Rollema=20 To: LF-Group=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:49 AM Subject: LF: Alarming message To All from PA0SE A friend of mine drew my attention to the following rather alarming = message: Van: ARRL Web site [mailto:memberlist@www.arrl.org] Verzonden: woensdag 16 augustus 2006 15:31 Aan: pa3alg@xs4all.nl CC: Subscribed ARRL Members: Onderwerp: ARLP033 Propagation de K7RA SB PROP ARL ARLP033 ARLP033 Propagation de K7RA This is a special early edition of the propagation bulletin, three days before the regular Friday publication schedule. The regular bulletin will appear on Friday, August 18. A newspaper article on Monday out of New Zealand reported a = proposed Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) project that = could cause major worldwide disruptions to HF radio communication and = GPS navigation. The ''Radiation Belt Remediation'' (RBR) system is envisaged as a method for protecting low earth orbit (LEO) satellites from damage caused by high altitude nuclear detonations or severe solar storms. Testing the system would use extremely = high intensity very low frequency (VLF) radio waves to flush particles from radiation belts and dump them into the upper atmosphere. When I first heard of this on Monday morning, I thought it must be something from a fringe web site peddling dark conspiracy = theories. But the newspaper reporting the news is real, and so is the team = of scientists from New Zealand, the UK and Finland whose study of possible effects of the scheme is reported in a recent edition of Annales Geophysicae. You can find the article here: http://www.physics.otago.ac.nz/research/space/ag-24-2025.pdf A web page from the University of Otago describing the research is here: = http://www.physics.otago.ac.nz/research/space/RBR_Media_release_8Aug06.ht= m I contacted the lead researcher on the team reporting the possible effects of the project, Dr. Craig Rodger of the Physics Department at the University of Otago in Dunedin, New Zealand. He proved = very cooperative, accessible and helpful, and told me RBR is a serious project, ''money is starting to appear to investigate it in more detail'', and ''U.S. scientists with military connections are = treating it seriously''. It is feared that testing the system could shut down worldwide HF communications for several days to a week, rendering the = ionosphere a giant sponge for RF. I sent Dr. Rodger a comment from Ward Silver, N0AX, who speculated ''the sheer energy needed to accomplish it would tend to rule it = out from the start, and I don't know where they would erect the necessary antennas.'' Dr. Rodger responded, ''This would be true, but they are hoping to rely on some of the non-linear processes in space plasmas, = stealing the energy from the radiation belts to get the wave-amplitudes = high enough. We know this is possible (in theory), as it happens naturally already. We don't know how easy it will be to get it happening under our control''. ''Also, as for erecting the antenna, there are two plans. One is = to fly VLF antenna in space. This could be a power problem. But for ground-based systems, you probably already know that most major naval powers have big VLF transmitters dotted over the globe. = (Two of the US Navy transmitters radiate one megawatt). While these = are designed to keep the signals mostly under the ionosphere, it shows the possibility for building big powerful antenna''. You can read Monday's article from the New Zealand Herald, here: = http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=3D1ObjectID=3D10396164 If you would like to make a comment or have a tip for our readers, email the author at, k7ra@arrl.net. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C6C603.2C5223E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dick,
1. Was there not a similar scare a few = years ago=20 about ionospheric warming casued by HAARP experiments etc. = ?

2. Pat g4gvw makes very = valid objections=20 in his E-mail, matters which seem to be dismissed as "societal not = scientific"=20 in the paper by C.J.Roger et. al. ...

"In the=20 extreme, and hopefully unlikely case of a HANE = (High=20 Altitude Nuclear Explosion), the disruption caused during RBR operation would probably be viewed as = acceptable.=20 However, this might not be the case for an = RBRoperating=20 to flush an intense natural injection, = although is=20 clearly a societal rather than a scientific=20 matter."

3. The supposed disruption to = satelites caused by=20 a HANE seems to be based on what happened to Telstar and similar vintage = space-craft. Surely satelite design has progressed since then, with = better=20 shielding and "radiation hardened" devices being used. If satelites are = more=20 robust then much of the reason for using RBR evaporates.

4. There doesn't seem to be much = discussion of=20 what effect such a high level VLF field would have directly, it all = seems to be=20 about HF communication.

Just some thoughts = ...

73

Hugh M0WYE

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dick=20 Rollema
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 = 10:49=20 AM
Subject: LF: Alarming = message

To All from=20 PA0SE

A friend of mine drew my attention to the following = rather=20 alarming message:

Van: ARRL Web site = [mailto:memberlist@www.arrl.org]
Verzonden:=20 woensdag 16 augustus 2006 15:31
Aan: pa3alg@xs4all.nl
CC: = Subscribed ARRL=20 Members:
Onderwerp: ARLP033 Propagation de K7RA

SB PROP = ARL=20 ARLP033
ARLP033 Propagation de K7RA

This is a special = early=20 edition of the propagation bulletin, three
days before the = regular=20 Friday publication schedule.  The regular
bulletin will = appear on=20 Friday, August 18.

A newspaper article on Monday out of New = Zealand=20 reported a proposed
Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency = (DARPA)=20 project that could
cause major worldwide disruptions to HF = radio=20 communication and GPS
navigation.  The ''Radiation Belt=20 Remediation'' (RBR) system is
envisaged as a method for = protecting low=20 earth orbit (LEO)
satellites from damage caused by high = altitude=20 nuclear detonations
or severe solar storms.  Testing the = system=20 would use extremely high
intensity very low frequency (VLF) = radio waves=20 to flush particles
from radiation belts and dump them into the = upper=20 atmosphere.

When I first heard of this on Monday morning, I = thought=20 it must be
something from a fringe web site peddling dark = conspiracy=20 theories.
But the newspaper reporting the news is real, and so = is the=20 team of
scientists from New Zealand, the UK and Finland whose = study=20 of
possible effects of the scheme is reported in a recent = edition=20 of
Annales Geophysicae.

You can find the article = here:

http://www.physics.otago.ac.nz/research/space/ag-24-20= 25.pdf

A=20 web page from the University of Otago describing the research=20 is
here:

http://www.physics.otago.ac.nz/research/space/RBR_Medi= a_release_8Aug06.htm

I=20 contacted the lead researcher on the team reporting the=20 possible
effects of the project, Dr. Craig Rodger of the = Physics=20 Department
at the University of Otago in Dunedin, New = Zealand.  He=20 proved very
cooperative, accessible and helpful, and told me = RBR is a=20 serious
project, ''money is starting to appear to investigate = it in=20 more
detail'', and ''U.S. scientists with military connections = are=20 treating
it seriously''.

It is feared that testing the = system=20 could shut down worldwide HF
communications for several days to = a week,=20 rendering the ionosphere
a giant sponge for RF.

I sent = Dr.=20 Rodger a comment from Ward Silver, N0AX, who speculated
''the = sheer=20 energy needed to accomplish it would tend to rule it out
from = the=20 start, and I don't know where they would erect the
necessary=20 antennas.''

Dr. Rodger responded, ''This would be true, but = they=20 are hoping to
rely on some of the non-linear processes in space = plasmas, stealing
the energy from the radiation belts to get = the=20 wave-amplitudes high
enough.  We know this is possible (in = theory), as it happens
naturally already.  We don't know = how easy=20 it will be to get it
happening under our = control''.

''Also, as=20 for erecting the antenna, there are two plans.  One is = to
fly VLF=20 antenna in space.  This could be a power problem.  But=20 for
ground-based systems, you probably already know that most=20 major
naval powers have big VLF transmitters dotted over the=20 globe.  (Two
of the US Navy transmitters radiate one=20 megawatt).  While these are
designed to keep the signals = mostly=20 under the ionosphere, it shows
the possibility for building big = powerful antenna''.

You can read Monday's article from the = New=20 Zealand Herald, here:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=3D1Ob= jectID=3D10396164

If=20 you would like to make a comment or have a tip for our = readers,
email=20 the author at,=20 = k7ra@arrl.net.




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