Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8C5903800008A; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Su33W-00024I-N7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:59:18 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Su33W-000248-55 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:59:18 +0100 Received: from out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.243]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Su33U-0005Mt-56 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:59:17 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAEcGEFBcF/3L/2dsb2JhbABFuWKBCIIbBQEBBQgBAQNJAiwBAQMFAgEDEQQBAQolFAEEGgYWCAYTCgECAgEBiAC7U4tNG4ZZA4gZhUGXfIJf X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,653,1336345200"; d="scan'208,217";a="42894979" Received: from host-92-23-253-203.as13285.net (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.23.253.203]) by out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 2012 15:59:14 +0100 Message-ID: <003401cd6a76$0a73aa50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <003001cd6a40$a9199650$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <500FEE4B.5030401@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:53:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Stefan 3000 km is not the problem. The problem is finding someone else on 500 with a Permit to operate, a suitable RX and proper Antenna for the job like the DXers do on 160 then it is easy. Your MAGIC on 160 meters with a low dipole was the 600 Watts even with a high angle of radiation some RF will have made it to the USA [...] Content analysis details: (3.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [62.24.128.243 listed in list.dnswl.org] 1.0 FSL_XM_419 Old OE version in X-Mailer only seen in 419 spam -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.4 FSL_UA FSL_UA 1.7 AXB_XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_024C2 AXB_XMAILER_MIMEOLE_OL_024C2 X-Scan-Signature: 07fee8d4a4e8ea80934a0e0aaa44e788 Subject: Re: LF: MF DOPOLE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01CD6A75.4815AB70" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60c950100a002e14 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01CD6A75.4815AB70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan 3000 km is not the problem. The problem is finding someone else on 500 = with a Permit to operate, a suitable RX and proper Antenna for the job = like the DXers do on 160 then it is easy. Your MAGIC on 160 meters with a low dipole was the 600 Watts even with a = high angle of radiation some RF will have made it to the USA Try QRP with a low dipole and see how you get on !! with the long haul = DX G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:02 PM Subject: Re: LF: MF DOPOLE Am 25.07.2012 10:37, schrieb mal hamilton:=20 MF I tried a full size Horizontal dipole up at 12 metres high for 160 = metres some years back and it was NO GOOD for DX long haul Maybe not for DX but it would be OK for many people to cover a range = of 1000km! In /p with QRP power levels there is no DX to be expected = anyway.=20 Will be interesting to see if there are significant QSB effects = compared to a vertical. But this will be very hard to interprete... On 160m i used a 130m lazy loop in 8m height and worked the US in a CW = contest, running 600W. The main lobe may show to 90 deg but anyway = something is radiated at low angles. Transmitting, however it did work well on Receive=20 I was able to receive East coast USA stations at good strength both = on CW es SSB but they had difficulty or could not hear me running 400 = Watts to the antenna. When I changed over to a 1/4 wave inv L with a vertical height of 20 = metres I was able to work every one that i could hear including ZL es VK = plus all the W stns as far as W6/7 es VE7 Because the dipole was so low the angle of radiation was too high = and the transmitted RF had fizzled out on long haul. Surely the dipole will not as good as a 30m inv-L. But just for fun, = on holidays or fielddays or for those who have no 30m inv-L (!) it may = be an alternative. And it is fascinating :-) Locally it was probably ok but this was not my aim. I have a 25 metre mast available at present and thought about an inv = V dipole for 600 metres as an experiment but it would be so low at this = frequency and exhibit high angle radiation that it would be useless for = long haul but probably very good around EU So maybe it would perform even better in EU QSOs, maybe with lower = QSB. How many MF QSOs (not the QSX 7033 kHz stuff) outside a range of = 3000 km have you done? 73, Stefan/DK7FC ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01CD6A75.4815AB70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Stefan
3000 km is not the problem. The problem is = finding someone=20 else on 500 with a Permit to operate, a suitable RX and proper Antenna = for the=20 job like the DXers do on 160 then it is easy.
 
Your MAGIC on 160 meters with a low dipole was = the 600=20 Watts even with a high angle of radiation some  RF will have made = it to the=20 USA
 
Try QRP with a low dipole and see how you get on = !! with=20 the long haul DX
 
 
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Stefan = Sch=E4fer
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 = 1:02=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: MF = DOPOLE


Am 25.07.2012 10:37, schrieb mal hamilton:=20
MF
I tried a full size Horizontal dipole up at = 12 metres=20 high for 160 metres some years back and it was NO GOOD for DX long=20 haul

Maybe not for DX but it would be = OK for many=20 people to cover a range of 1000km! In /p with QRP power levels there = is no DX=20 to be expected anyway.
Will be interesting to see if there are = significant=20 QSB effects compared to a vertical. But this will be very hard to=20 interprete...

On 160m i used a 130m lazy loop in 8m height and = worked=20 the US in a CW contest, running 600W. The main lobe may show to 90 deg = but=20 anyway something is radiated at low angles.

Transmitting, however it did work well on = Receive=20
I was able to receive East coast USA = stations at good=20 strength both on CW es SSB but they had difficulty or could not hear = me  running 400 Watts to the antenna.
When I changed over to a 1/4 wave inv L with = a=20 vertical height of 20 metres I was able to work every one that i = could hear=20 including ZL es VK plus all the W stns as far as W6/7 es = VE7
Because the dipole was so low the angle of = radiation=20 was too high and the transmitted RF had fizzled out on long=20 haul.
Surely the dipole will not as good as = a 30m=20 inv-L. But just for fun, on holidays or fielddays or for those who = have no 30m=20 inv-L (!) it may be an alternative. And it is fascinating :-)

Locally it was probably ok but this was not = my=20 aim.
I have a 25 metre mast available at present = and=20 thought about an inv V dipole for 600 metres as an experiment but it = would=20 be so low at this frequency and exhibit high angle radiation that it = would=20 be useless for long haul but probably very good around=20 EU
So maybe it would perform even better in = EU QSOs,=20 maybe with lower QSB. How many MF QSOs (not the QSX 7033 kHz stuff) = outside a=20 range of 3000 km have you done?

73,=20 Stefan/DK7FC
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