Return-Path: Received: from rly-mh03.mx.aol.com (rly-mh03.mail.aol.com [172.21.166.139]) by air-mh08.mail.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILINMH082-bc148973f99d9; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:43:15 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-mh03.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINMH031-bc148973f99d9; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:42:52 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1KQ44k-0003wO-4m for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:42:30 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1KQ44j-0003wF-5o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:42:29 +0100 Received: from smtp-out-1.talktalk.net ([62.24.128.231] helo=smtp.talktalk.net) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KQ44f-00087N-Hg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:42:29 +0100 X-Path: TTSMTP Received: from unknown (HELO mal769a60aa920) ([78.150.159.190]) by smtp.talktalk.net with SMTP; 04 Aug 2008 18:42:02 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c8f659$6972c2b0$0301a8c0@mal769a60aa920> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <004a01c8f19b$3d370520$a402a8c0@Inspiron> <011925433193420FAA184FA6E7F8CDA9@DennisPC> <120FCD1BCEFD4733A70BB7E4DE695E1F@AGB> <847A2BA37D8C4C88BE7899AFE777998A@DennisPC> <4FEA55415CE3426391A1472DCA8FB59D@AGB> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 18:42:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Karma: 0: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01C8F661.CB051E30" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C8F661.CB051E30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A G5RV antenna is generally poor and do not mention a half size, there are n= o words to describe it !!!! As regards morse, learn it properly. I will start sending characteristic mor= se on a bug and your machine will not read it, it needs the human approach. Regarding trees be cautious it might zap your half size G5RV what a loss!!!!= !! G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DENNIS EASTERLING=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Hi Graham Thanks for the info. I have a large earth spike just outside the shack,=20= and 48ft of copper wire running in Y formation under the lawn. I know the=20= earth made a difference on top band. I like the idea of a mast-top coil an= d that it will be much further from me when operating, but will have to try=20= it later. I was interested about your results on 80m, because my performan= ce on that band has never been good. I started using a half size G5RV, and= could never decide whether 80m was best when working as a half size dipole=20= or 'T'. 40m and above was not too bad. I have decided to use MMTTY program for rtty, and after looking for all th= e little buttons, have got it working. Am still struggling with reading mo= rse, but have overcome my bad keying by writing a keying program in GW Basic= (Dont tell Mal Hi) Have Argo for slow morse on the computer but have not=20= got used to it yet. I think I will have to seek help from Chris G3XIZ. The neighbours tree is down, but there is some doubt about the one next t= o it, and so I am waiting to see what happens before raising the far mast. =20= Meanwhile I am running an inverted V for nearby top band work. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Dennis, I'm in a state of flux at this end , having a big move round ,,which ha= s not gone to plan still operational on hf , but all the mf kit is in boxe= s at the moment , I can take a look , on 500 , with low power you will be be= tter sending very slow cw and checking on the grabbers , you should show at= Birmingham and later in the night at Shetland ... Shetland is a very strang= e place as there doesn't look to be any background noise . ... apart from t= he wind that occasionally removes the antenna ! Gary is also running a on l= ine 'grabber' he's about 60 miles north of Birmingham . you may shown there.= ..=20 Oddly , a good earth looks to do more for the signal than the Ae , any=20= pipes rods ect in the ground , use individual wires and bring them all back= to the same earth point , its not conductance that makes the difference is= ground capacity , the more the better , wires under the top of the ae will=20= add to the return path for the current... =20 The top loading coil, 40 turns of 30 amp wire on a coke bottle , (oth= ers may of used a cider flagon .... they know who they are) ... and i think=20= Gary favours a centre one, made a big improvement. Anything that increases t= he current in the vertical section of the system , don't bother with long l= ow wires , these just radiate vertically upwards.. the annoying thing is the station now works much better on top band and= 80 mtrs as a result of the mod's embodied for 500... could of done them 15=20= years ago=20 Q how are you generating fsk ? =20 Good luck=20 Graham From: DENNIS EASTERLING=20 Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:00 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Graham Thanks for your e-mail and encouraging remarks. I have made a couple o= f test transmissions, but no comments so far. I am having to suspend ops f= or the present as my neighbour is having a nearby tree felled and I have low= ered my antenna just in case. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 1:27 AM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Dennis, Don't worry about operation on vlf, I think you find the band acts mo= re like top band , with a well defined service area ~60/ 70 miles and a firs= t skip round 200/250 , I can see a trace at Birmingham with 500mW to my ante= nna , only real problem is the dreaded deep fade 'qsb' whic takes the signal= out 30 seconds up to 1 minuet + , which causes havoc with rtty , as you ha= ve no idea if the other station copied anything .... dont suppose you have a= mtor ? =20 I doubt you will cause any interference with those power levels , I r= an 20 watts to a inverted L 40 ft x 40 ft for a long time , which radiated=20= quite well , but after adding a top loading coil found it worked a lot bette= r , with 150 watts and a new variometer tuner , still didn't record any prob= lems .. Had more problems with the pc jamming the incoming signals and a funny= long life bulb that radiated a well spaced spectrum across the band ! chec= k out the pages on the google uk500khz web news group for links to the grab= bers etc .=20 73 's=20 Graham ..=20 G0NBD=20 From: DENNIS EASTERLING=20 Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:52 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Hi Lee I have just got my NOV to operate on 500kHz, so will be dipping my toe= into the water from next week. I have not got any 138kHz experience and only obtained my full amateur= licence last May. On my application for the NOV, I provided a scale diagram of my own an= d immediate neighbour's properties, gave a brief description of the TX(home=20= brew), RX(Lowe HF-225) and antenna(T) that I intend to use and an estimate o= f my erp from the TANTENNA program on the internet (200mW). As I am using a= VFO, I use a counter to measure the frequency and also monitor transmission= s using the RX which has a digital readout. I also stated that I would cea= se transmissions until any complaint was satisfactorily resolverd, and menti= oned two nearby amateurs also working on 500kHz whose help and advice I coul= d seek. All the above seemed to work, so good luck on your application. The m= ore the merrier. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lee Hudson=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: LF: 500KHz NoV Hi All, After reading through loads of stuff and monitoring the LF Group I'm= left with the decision of whether to start on 136 or 500KHz. 500KHz seems much easier to deal with from the outset, and hopefully= the NoV period will be extended further next year. However the NoV itself is the possible stumbling block in that it ap= pears that experience on 136KHz is a big plus that Ofcom appear to be lookin= g for, My question is, would I get away with applying for a NoV without fir= st being active on 136KHz, or has anyone already taken this route and been s= uccessful? 73, Lee M0LMH. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1581 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 06= :56 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 17= :30 ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C8F661.CB051E30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A G5RV antenna is generally poor and do not= mention=20 a half size, there are no words to describe it !!!!
As regards morse, learn it properly. I will= start=20 sending characteristic morse on a bug and your machine will not read it, it=20 needs the human approach.
Regarding trees be cautious it might zap yo= ur half=20 size G5RV what a loss!!!!!!
 
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
DENNIS EASTERLING
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 4:43=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Hi Graham
 
Thanks for the info.   I have a= large=20 earth spike just outside the shack, and 48ft of copper wire running in Y=20 formation under the lawn.   I know the earth made a difference o= n=20 top band.   I like the idea of a mast-top coil and that it=20= will=20 be much further from me when operating, but will have to try it=20 later.   I was interested about your results on 80m, because my=20 performance on that band has never been good.   I started using=20= a=20 half size G5RV, and could never decide whether 80m was best when working a= s a=20 half size dipole or 'T'.  40m and above was not too bad.
 
I have decided to use MMTTY program for r= tty, and=20 after looking for all the little buttons, have got it working.  = Am=20 still struggling with reading morse, but have overcome my bad keying by=20 writing a keying program in GW Basic (Dont tell Mal Hi)   Have A= rgo=20 for slow morse on the computer but have not got used to it yet.  I th= ink=20 I will have to seek help from Chris G3XIZ.
 
The neighbours tree is down,  but th= ere is=20 some doubt about the one next to it, and so I am waiting to see what happe= ns=20 before raising the far mast.  Meanwhile I am running an inverted V fo= r=20 nearby top band work.
 
73
Dennis M0JXM
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Graham
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:4= 3=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Dennis,
 
I'm in  a state of flux at this en= d ,=20 having a big move round ,,which has not gone to  plan  still=20 operational on hf , but all the mf kit is in boxes at the moment , I can= =20 take a look , on 500 , with low power you will be better sending very&nb= sp;=20 slow cw and checking on the grabbers , you should show at Birmingham=20 and later in the night at Shetland ... Shetland is a very strange p= lace=20 as there doesn't look to  be any background noise . ... apart=20= from=20 the wind that occasionally removes the antenna ! Gary is also  runn= ing=20 a on line 'grabber' he's about 60 miles north of Birmingham . you may sh= own=20 there...
 
Oddly , a good earth looks to  do=20= more for=20 the signal than the Ae , any pipes rods  ect in the ground , use=20 individual wires and bring them all back  to the same earth point ,= its=20 not conductance that makes the difference is ground capacity , the more=20= the=20 better , wires under the top of the ae will add  to  the retur= n=20 path for the current...  
 
 The top loading coil, 40  tu= rns of=20 30 amp wire  on a coke bottle , (others may of used a cider fl= agon=20 .... they know who they are) ... and i think Gary favours a centre=20= one,=20 made a big improvement. Anything that= =20 increases the current in the vertical section of the system , don't=20  bother with long low wires , these just radiate vertically=20 upwards..
the annoying thing is  the st= ation=20 now works much better on top band and 80 mtrs as a result of the mod's=20 embodied for 500... could of done them 15 years ago
 
Q how are you generating fsk ?=20  
 
Good luck
 
Graham
 
 
 
 

Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Graham
 
Thanks for your e-mail and encouraging=20 remarks.   I have made a couple of test transmissions, but no=20 comments so far.   I am having to suspend ops for the present=20= as=20 my neighbour is having a nearby tree felled and I have lowered my antenn= a=20 just in case.
 
73 Dennis M0JXM
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Graham
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 1= :27=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV=

Dennis,
 
Don't worry about  operation on=20= vlf, I=20 think you find the band acts more like top band , with a well defined=20 service area ~60/ 70 miles and a first skip round 200/250 , I can see=20= a=20 trace at Birmingham with 500mW to my antenna , only real problem is th= e=20 dreaded deep fade 'qsb' whic takes the signal out 30 seconds up to&nbs= p; 1=20 minuet + , which causes havoc with rtty , as you have no idea if the o= ther=20 station copied anything .... dont suppose you have amtor ?=20  
 
I doubt you will cause any interferen= ce=20 with  those power levels , I ran 20 watts to a inverted L&nb= sp;=20 40 ft x 40 ft for a long time , which radiated quite well , but after=20 adding a top loading coil found it worked a lot better , with 150 watt= s=20 and a new variometer tuner , still didn't record any problems=20 ..
 
Had more problems with the pc jamming= the=20 incoming signals and a funny long life bulb that radiated a well space= d=20 spectrum across the band  ! check out the pages on the google&nbs= p;=20 uk500khz web news group for links to the grabbers etc .
 
73 's
 
Graham ..
 
G0NBD
 
 
 

Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Hi Lee
 
I have just got my NOV to operate on=20= 500kHz,=20 so will be dipping my toe into the water from next week.
 
I have not got any 138kHz experience=20= and only=20 obtained my full amateur licence last May.
On my application for the NOV, I prov= ided a=20 scale diagram of my own and immediate neighbour's properties, gav= e a=20 brief description of the TX(home brew), RX(Lowe HF-225) and antenna(T)= =20 that I intend to use and an estimate of my erp from the TANTENNA=20 program on the internet (200mW).  As I am using a VFO, I use a=20 counter to measure the frequency and also monitor transmissions using=20= the=20 RX which has a digital readout.   I also stated that I would= =20 cease transmissions until any complaint was satisfactorily resolverd,=20= and=20 mentioned two nearby amateurs also working on 500kHz whose help and ad= vice=20 I could seek.
 
All the above seemed to work, so good= luck on=20 your application.  The more the merrier.
 
73 Dennis M0JXM
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lee Hudson
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008=20= 5:50=20 PM
Subject: LF: 500KHz NoV

Hi All,

 =

After reading throug= h loads=20 of stuff and monitoring the LF Group I=92m left with the decision of= =20 whether to start on 136 or 500KHz.

 =

500KHz seems much ea= sier to=20 deal with from the outset, and hopefully the NoV period will be exte= nded=20 further next year.

However the NoV itse= lf is=20 the possible stumbling block in that it appears that experience on=20 136KHz is a big plus that Ofcom appear to be looking=20 for,

 =

My question is, woul= d I get=20 away with applying for a NoV without first being active on 136KHz, o= r=20 has anyone already taken this route and been=20 successful?

 =

73,

Lee M0LMH.

 = 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1581 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 06=
:56

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 17=
:30
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