Return-Path: Received: from rly-da01.mx.aol.com (rly-da01.mail.aol.com [172.19.129.75]) by air-da08.mail.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDA083-a4c477027641bf; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:41:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-da01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDA014-a4c477027641bf; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:40:53 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1J6v2J-0007El-3H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:40:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1J6v2I-0007Ec-Hn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:40:34 +0000 Received: from smtp807.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.67]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1J6v2E-0002ul-Qn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:40:34 +0000 Received: (qmail 18080 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2007 21:40:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=4weX6ILMLq6shoE750Kq25mDmJJlAwsgfL7y1WItJg4pnjyX/dnd3Ubj8jCY4CSFQdjwDo2QCNeIb2M7lMSHBwB3XkmPLvG5jUS1JkTif2nQb+JdbmCDfhr048NArKtSPSSSZm7hlTuNT+fdbAEEMN3Kq+SOZ56GLclYbaMflN0= ; Received: from unknown (HELO Lark) (alan.melia@btinternet.com@213.122.40.225 with login) by smtp807.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2007 21:40:04 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: NGevBD4VM1lWGMkPck4VEpK084PUqxGwM8ljhtnNQuZg51sFR3q0PmKI7gxB7gUwfFRFIzSzxA-- Message-ID: <002401c84675$94a4b7c0$0900a8c0@Lark> From: "Alan Melia" To: References: <002801c84667$cc5bc040$ed2c8351@w4o8m9> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:40:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Karma: 0: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: LF Antenna Effective height comparison Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n Hi Jim, that is a very interesting comparison. I estimated the effective height of my inverted L by extrapolating Dick's (PA0SE) field strength measurements for DCF39 and got a figure of 6m for my 9m high aerial. The vertical is pulled away from the gable end of the house by about 6 to 8 feet, and the top wire goes over several 12foot hight fruit trees and alongside some 50 foot Eucalyptus for a short distance. The deficit is amazingly similar to your findings. One thing that is nice to note is that the extra loss for increasing the height is not proportional, so that there is a good amount to be gained (as we found) by increasing the height of a aerial, even in a lossy location. The effective height did not depend on the amount of top-load capacitance (the minimum length was 30m) but the measured loss resistance (RF Bridge) reduced considerably as I went from 250pF (30m top-wire) to 850pF.(150m) One question that may be pertinent ....how do the heights of the trees/environment compare with the physical aerial height? I am wondering whether the loss, which might be considered as fraction of the power, capacitively coupled to a loss resistor, is mostly from the lower part of the vertical. This would make sense because any current flowing in the top wire does not materially add to the radiated signal and current diverted from "just above the loading coil" cannot flow throught the rest of the distributed (along the vertical leg) radiation resistance. This might help explain the effective-height deficit only increasing slowly with increase in physical height Great Work Happy Christmas Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message ----- From: James Moritz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 4:13 PM Subject: LF Antenna Effective height comparison Dear LF Group, After doing the "open field" antenna tests a couple of weeks ago, I have been repeating field strength measurements on my home QTH antenna for comparison. -------------snip