Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9BC3938000055; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 05:12:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RDBtZ-0002vl-5n for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:11:37 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RDBtY-0002vc-JG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:11:36 +0100 Received: from out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.238]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RDBtV-0007Ou-P0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:11:36 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AogAAByzkk5cF/+Y/2dsb2JhbABDmG2PLIEGgU4FAQEFCAEBA0kCLAEBAwUCAQMRBAEBCiUUAQQaBhYIBhMKAQICAQGHbwW2S4dDBIJYhHWHCgEBlnA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.68,516,1312153200"; d="scan'208,217";a="376515661" Received: from host-92-23-255-152.as13285.net (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.23.255.152]) by out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2011 10:10:22 +0100 Message-ID: <002101cc872c$6d638050$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <20111009.155855.1944.3.riese-k3djc@juno.com> <002d01cc86eb$6f677730$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4E92662A.5030406@telus.net> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 08:19:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: mains wires Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01CC8725.64848D50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:438666208:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 1 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608b4e92b7140a45 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CC8725.64848D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx Scott and others for the info. Your system is more complicated = because of the 117 v and 230v dual supply required. In the UK there is more conformity to wiring and the plugs are non = reversible into the socket, whereas your 2 blade plug goes in either way = round and no Earth. In EU their 2 pin plug is also reversible but does = have an earth.=20 When using NA 117v equipment in the UK it is probably best to use a = step down ISOLATION transformer, and rewire the 230v equipment mains = cord to be compatible with all the other shack eqjuipment. 73 de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Scott Tilley=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 3:27 AM Subject: Re: LF: mains wires Hi Mal Something to keep in mind if the product was intentionally designed to = be operated on 240VAC here in 120VAC land then it will NOT have a = neutral or 'grounded conductor' in code speak. =20 240VAC is generated here from either side of a center tapped = transformer. The center tap is the neutral / grounded conductor. =20 So for 240VAC here in NA, a neutral is not used but rather two 'hots' = of opposite phase. In a system like this a quite normal way to make a functional control = switch is to kill only one leg. As it is not considered a disconnect = switch opening both hots is not required. The 'code' disconnect switch = CAN be the upstream circuit breaker or the cord-set. So you may ask why the colour coding was still wrong? Likely the = equipment was not UL or CSA certified for NA. Even then the colour = coding is very weakly dealt with on in the the part 1 installation code = and not really technically enforceable in equipment. Assuming the equipment was not designed for EU use they may have not = considered this as a potential issue... 73 Scott VE7TIL =20 On 10/9/2011 6:25 PM, mal hamilton wrote:=20 Bob If you look at a Dentron 2500 amplifier on the cct diagram the 230v = mains cable, WHITE wire goes to the ON/OFF switch on amplifier then = primary of HT transformer which to me is HOT and BLACK wire goes = directly to the other side of primary winding, NEUTRAL and GREEN to = chassis. In the UK the switch is always in the LIVE (hot) wire and NEUTRAL = direct to the appliance except it happens to be a double switch. UK appliance BROWN live, BLUE neutral, plus an earth wire (3 wire = appliance) mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: riese-k3djc@juno.com=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 7:48 PM Subject: Re: LF: mains wires what I use to keep track Black is hot white is not Bob K3DJC On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:09:09 -0000 "mal hamilton" = writes: LF I have a USA amplifier with 230v input. The mains wires are = BLACK, WHITE, and GREEN The cct diagram shows White as the live wire with amplifier = mains switch in this line, Black goes to the other end directly to = transformer primary and Green to earth. but according to USA info the Black wire should be Live and White = Neutral.=20 So beware !!!!!!!!!!!!!! de g3kev ____________________________________________________________ Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat! ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CC8725.64848D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tnx Scott and others for the info. Your system = is more=20 complicated because of the 117 v and 230v dual supply = required.
In the UK there is more conformity to wiring and = the plugs=20 are non reversible into the socket, whereas your 2 blade plug goes in = either way=20 round and no Earth.  In EU their 2 pin plug is also reversible but = does=20 have an earth.
When using NA 117v  equipment in the UK it = is=20 probably best to use a step down ISOLATION =  transformer, and=20  rewire the 230v equipment  mains cord to be compatible with = all the=20 other shack eqjuipment.
 
 
73 de mal/g3kev
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Scott = Tilley=20
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 = 3:27=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: mains = wires

Hi Mal

Something to keep in mind if the product = was=20 intentionally designed to be operated on 240VAC here in 120VAC land = then it=20 will NOT have a neutral or 'grounded conductor' in code speak. =20

240VAC is generated here from either side of a center tapped=20 transformer.  The center tap is the neutral / grounded = conductor. =20

So for 240VAC here in NA, a neutral is not used but rather two = 'hots'=20 of opposite phase.

In a system like this a quite normal way to = make a=20 functional control switch is to kill only one leg.  As it is not=20 considered a disconnect switch opening both hots is not = required.  The=20 'code' disconnect switch CAN be the upstream circuit breaker or the=20 cord-set.

So you may ask why the colour coding was still=20 wrong?   Likely the equipment was not UL or CSA certified = for=20 NA.  Even then the colour coding is very weakly dealt with on in = the the=20 part 1 installation code and not really technically enforceable in=20 equipment.

Assuming the equipment was not designed for EU use = they may=20 have not considered this as a potential issue...

73=20 Scott
VE7TIL
   


On 10/9/2011 6:25 = PM, mal=20 hamilton wrote:=20
Bob
If you look at a Dentron 2500 amplifier on = the cct=20 diagram the 230v mains cable,  WHITE  wire goes to the = ON/OFF=20 switch on amplifier then primary of HT transformer which to me is HOT and BLACK wire goes directly to the = other side=20 of primary winding, NEUTRAL and GREEN to chassis.
In the UK the switch is always in the LIVE = (hot) wire=20 and NEUTRAL direct to the appliance except it happens to be a double = switch.
 
UK appliance BROWN live, BLUE neutral, plus = an earth=20 wire  (3 wire appliance)
mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 riese-k3djc@juno.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Sunday, October 09, = 2011 7:48=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: mains = wires

what I use to keep track
 
Black is hot white is not
 
Bob K3DJC
 
On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:09:09 -0000 "mal hamilton" <g3kevmal@talktalk.net> = writes:
LF
I have a USA amplifier with 230v input. = The mains=20 wires are BLACK, WHITE, and GREEN
 
The cct diagram shows White as the live = wire with=20 amplifier  mains switch in this line, Black goes to the = other end=20 directly to transformer primary
and Green to earth.
but
according to USA info the Black wire = should be=20 Live and White Neutral.
 
So beware !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
de g3kev
 
 
=

____________________________________________________________
Get Free Email with Video Mail & = Video=20 = Chat!


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