Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dl03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E917838000098; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:38:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Rzshw-0003lt-MP for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:36:52 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Rzshv-0003lk-Dj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:36:51 +0000 Received: from out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.237]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Rzshu-00064v-23 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:36:51 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApkHABzGQ09cF/NZ/2dsb2JhbABDglGrfIN5gQiBbgUBAQUIAQEDCxUpAg8NEAEBAwUCAQMRBAEBChcBBgcUAQQaBg0JCAYTCgECAgEBCIdqrnGIQYh8ZIIWCQQCCgEEBAtFAQGDXziDPgSCXYU/hTqaT4FU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,458,1325462400"; d="scan'208,217";a="381302208" Received: from host-92-23-243-89.as13285.net (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.23.243.89]) by out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2012 16:31:41 +0000 Message-ID: <001b01ccf0b6$499bc080$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <002a01ccee25$c2416cd0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4F3F800B.2000201@xs4all.nl> <003e01ccee2d$49b17f50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <007f01ccee6c$3eca0f50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <6ADDBBA8CD0B4DC38D7950C75294B505@AGB> <004601cceee8$7566da80$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <2AB0A82B2A6F4A0ABCD855D8AB420777@lindavideo> <000f01cceef9$bbcbe130$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20939DDAB9A34C99BF9854521FFDF361@lindavideo> <000d01ccefb7$0195a620$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <5F2709601E5A4F4EA48E633CA19F728D@lindavideo> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:31:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01CCF0B6.493EAC60" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:486200320:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4ad14f43c86c11ae X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CCF0B6.493EAC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ken=20 since you mentioned Appliance Operator. In their shacks they wear = wellingtons, rubber gloves and Bob the Builder plastic hats and are = chained by the wrist to the ground just to be on the safe, you never = know what is lurking in radio shacks!! a leaky transistor. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 11:11 AM Subject: RE: LF: opera 500 Hi Mal. Ok you are bang on the line limit. I hope to be back on LF soon, = constructing a HV power supply, the original project was designed for = the 500kHz 10w ERP limits, now starting to re-design for the new LF = band. Lucky they don't use 470/475kHz Ifs any more. Just purchased 0 - = 5MHz DDS osc so generating the change in frequency is no problem, but = need to do new input filters for the RX pre-amp, driver board for the = 23W TX , transformers and PA for the valve TX not for the appliance = operators you can tell an appliance operator he has no solder burns. On = a different note have not heard anything regarding Finbar recently is he = ok? Regards. Ken M0KHW =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 20 February 2012 10:04 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Hi Ken Yes the filters are fitted. I know how the system works as you = describe it. Since the common denominator is the copper line I thought = the RF would effect both. My line is probably 3 miles to the telephone = exchange via various junction boxes etc and 30 plus years old. Not ideal = and never intended to carry high speed data. The engineer did say my = line was noisy. The whole country needs to be re-cabled with fibre optic cable now = that wideband data is here to stay and make life easy for the Appliance = Operator =20 mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:26 PM Subject: RE: LF: opera 500 =20 Hi Mal. The telephone portion is speech in the standard 300Hz - 3400Hz = speech band directly on the copper pairs, the DSL sits on top of this = using the DSLAM in the exchange, that is why you have a 'Micro Filter' = at each telephone outlet in the house, do you have a 'Micro Filter at = each telephone outlet? Regards. Ken M0KHW =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 19 February 2012 11:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Tnx Ken info No overhead lines around my QTH, all underground and there is no = problem with the telephone regardless of power on any band. Normally it is not a problem with CW, SSB, or QRSS it is just a = problem with Opera because of the data base feedback facility 73 de mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:05 AM Subject: RE: LF: opera 500 =20 Hi Mal. I had the same problem until I went Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC), = if you are on a long local line especially if it is overhead, the most = likely there will not be any DSL carriers above 500kHz, and what are = present will have a very poor S/N ratio. I fitted common mode chokes on = every piece of cable I could find and they made no difference, only a = few watts at 500kHz and the lower HF bands would cause the DSL router to = drop out and re-train up. I had my ex (pre-retirement) colleagues from = BT Adastral Park, conduct measurements on my local line, (2.8km in = length with 30m of drop wire) as part of a national survey, the line = without the common mode chokes had no DSL carriers above 500kHz with an = S/N less than 10dB, with a few watts of TX power with and without CMCs = the remaining carriers were degraded sufficiently to cause the router to = retrain. Another cause could be if you have drop wire there could be = corrosion on any external screw terminals causing 'Rectified Joints' = like the rusty bolt effect on radio masts, water getting into older = types of drop wire can cause corrosion on the plated steel conductors. Hope this helps. Ken ex-BT Adastral Parkl M0KHW =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 19 February 2012 09:26 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Graham I have some filtering and the phone is not effected only the data = stream taking some hits.=20 It could well be an earth loop problem, must investigate further. Its a long time since I have been in Walmsley/Liverpool. I used = that route frequently Liverpool/Belfast but these days its = Cairnryan/Larne The mode is popular because it is easy to implement especially = with CW transmitters and C/D/E amplifiers.=20 73 de mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:02 PM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 R Mal =20 Yes I cam across this some time ago with the first broad = band router, I brought one by edimax , not supposed to be the = best , but had a metal case and a real fcc licence , that was = fine , till adsl2 , the net-gear modem supplied was 100% u/s with = any Rf on any band .... =20 I brought the the newer version of the edimax , its not as = Rf proof as the old adsl-1 version, but for some reason , only = takes a hit on 160/80 =20 =20 Not too much you can do , apart from the usual Rf = chokes , could try a radio card from the router to the PC , if = that's where the Rf is being picked up ..unplug everything , see = if it crashes with just the phone line connected ? but with just = the driver , sounds a bit like a earth link .. depends how you have = the station wired up , i am in the top front room of the house , = so no direct earth , that's out in the shed , where the tuners = are , but I need to bond everything together to stop cable pick = up.. =20 73 -G.. =20 =20 =20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:36 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Yes Graham This seems to be the problem although it recovers quickly but = not quick enough. It happens with very little RF being transmitted at = the driver chip stage without the PA switched on. de mal/g3kev =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:00 PM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Mal, =20 Are you sure the internet/broadband connection is not = being frozen by the TX . ?=20 =20 I have this problem on 160 and 80 for some reason , 10 = watts and the web traffic stops but oddly , no problem on the other bands ...so you can = miss the incoming spots .. check the psk map and you will see 'who' is decoding = you ..=20 =20 This is one of the reasons a server handling the ros & = opera s/n reports would be a good addition . but the problem = is finding some one or group who could construct such a piece of = software .. it can be located on the sever JR runs .... still = looking for offers on that ..=20 =20 73 -G.=20 =20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:05 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Tnx Albert But why am I not seeing this info on the right hand windiow. = You are S9 audible =20 mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Albert=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:40 AM Subject: Re: LF: opera 500 =20 Op 18-2-2012 11:12, mal hamilton schreef:=20 mf Does anyone copy my op4 on 501.5 at present. No database = feedback from anyone=20 mal/g3kev =20 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0LCE Op4 495 km -9 dB in LAGE MIERDE = JO21NJ 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA3ABK Op4 443 km -3 dB in Dordrecht 10:16 500 G3KEV de G3ZJO Op4 229 km -26 dB in Northampton 10:16 500 G3KEV de ON6EO Op4 -4 dB in JO11LE 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0ONO Op4 421 km -13 dB in Rotterdam 10:16 500 G3KEV de PA0A Op4 461 km -1 dB in Lucaswolde = JO33DE 10:15 500 G3ZJO de G3ZJO Op4 0 km +6 dB in Northampton = with .0002w + 5m inv L-rx mini whip ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CCF0B6.493EAC60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ken
since you mentioned Appliance Operator. In their = shacks=20 they wear wellingtons, rubber gloves and Bob the Builder plastic hats = and are=20 chained by the wrist to the ground just to be on the safe, you never = know what=20 is lurking in radio shacks!! a leaky transistor.
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ken
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 = 11:11=20 AM
Subject: RE: LF: opera = 500

Hi=20 Mal.

Ok=20 you are bang on the line limit. I hope to be back on LF soon, = constructing a=20 HV power supply, the original project was designed for the 500kHz 10w = ERP=20 limits, now starting to re-design for the new LF band. Lucky they = don=92t use=20 470/475kHz Ifs any more. Just purchased 0 =96 5MHz DDS osc so = generating the=20 change in frequency is no problem, but need to do new input filters = for the RX=20 pre-amp, driver board for the 23W TX , transformers and PA for =  the valve=20 TX not for the appliance operators you can tell an appliance operator = he has=20 no solder  burns. On a different note have not heard anything = regarding=20 Finbar recently is he ok?

Regards.

Ken =20 M0KHW

 

From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton
Sent: 20 February 2012 = 10:04
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: opera=20 500

 

Hi=20 Ken

Yes = the filters=20 are fitted. I know how the system works as you describe it. Since the = common=20 denominator is the copper line I thought the RF would effect = both. My=20 line is probably 3 miles to the telephone exchange via various = junction boxes=20 etc and 30 plus years old. Not ideal and never intended to carry = high=20 speed data. The engineer did say my line was = noisy.

The = whole=20 country needs to be re-cabled with fibre optic cable now that = wideband=20 data is here to stay and make life easy for the Appliance=20 Operator

 

 mal/g3kev

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: Ken=20

Sent: = Sunday,=20 February 19, 2012 7:26 PM

Subject: = RE: LF:=20 opera 500

 

Hi=20 Mal.

The=20 telephone portion is speech in the standard 300Hz =96 3400Hz speech = band=20 directly on the copper pairs, the DSL sits on top of this using the = DSLAM in=20 the exchange, that is why you have a =91Micro Filter=92 at each = telephone outlet=20 in the house, do you have a =91Micro Filter at each telephone=20 outlet?

Regards.

Ken

M0KHW

 

 

From: = owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton
Sent: 19 February 2012=20 11:29
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: opera=20 500

 

Tnx = Ken=20 info

No = overhead=20 lines around my QTH, all underground and there is no problem with = the=20 telephone regardless of power on any band.

Normally it=20 is not a problem with CW, SSB, or QRSS it is just a problem with = Opera=20 because of the data base feedback facility

73 = de=20 mal/g3kev

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: = Ken=20

To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Sent: = Sunday,=20 February 19, 2012 11:05 AM

Subject: = RE: LF:=20 opera 500

 

Hi=20 Mal.

I=20 had the same problem until I went Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC), if = you are=20 on a long local line especially if it is overhead, the most likely = there=20 will not be any DSL carriers above 500kHz, and what are present = will have=20 a very poor S/N ratio. I fitted common mode chokes on every piece = of cable=20 I could find and they made no difference, only a few watts at = 500kHz and=20 the lower HF bands would cause the DSL router to drop out and = re-train up.=20 I had my ex (pre-retirement) colleagues  from BT Adastral = Park,=20 conduct measurements on my local line, (2.8km in length with 30m = of drop=20 wire) as part of a national survey, the line without the common = mode=20 chokes had no DSL carriers above 500kHz with an S/N less than = 10dB, with a=20 few watts of TX power with and without CMCs the remaining carriers = were=20 degraded sufficiently to cause the router to retrain. Another = cause could=20 be if you have drop wire there could be corrosion on any external = screw=20 terminals causing =91Rectified Joints=92 like the rusty bolt = effect on radio=20 masts, water getting into older types of drop wire can cause = corrosion on=20 the plated steel conductors.

Hope=20 this helps.

Ken   =20 ex-BT Adastral Parkl

M0KHW

   

 

From: = owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] = On Behalf Of mal hamilton
Sent: 19 February 2012=20 09:26
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: opera=20 500

 

Graham

I = have some=20 filtering and the phone is not effected only the data stream = taking some=20 hits.

It could=20 well be an earth loop problem, must investigate=20 further.

Its a long=20 time since I have been in Walmsley/Liverpool. I used that route = frequently=20 Liverpool/Belfast but these days its=20 Cairnryan/Larne

The mode is=20 popular because it is easy to implement especially with CW = transmitters=20 and C/D/E amplifiers.

73 de=20 mal/g3kev

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: Graham=20

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Sent:=20 Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:02 = PM

Subject: Re: LF:=20 opera 500

 

R=20 Mal

 

Yes  I = cam =20 across  this  some  time ago  with the  = first  broad  band  router,  I brought  = one  by  edimax , not  supposed to be the  = best ,=20 but  had a metal  case  and  a =20 real   fcc  licence , that  was fine , = till=20 adsl2  , the  net-gear modem supplied  was  = 100%=20 u/s   with  any  Rf  on any  band=20 ....

 

I brought the  = the =20 newer version of the  edimax , its   = not =20 as  Rf proof as the  old adsl-1  version, = but =20 for  some  reason  , only  takes a  = hit =20 on 160/80  

 

Not  too  = much  you  can  do  , apart  from = the =20  usual  Rf chokes , could  try  a  = radio =20 card  from the  router to the  PC , if that's = where =20 the  Rf is being  picked  up  = ..unplug  =20 everything  , see  if it  crashes  = with  just=20 the  phone  line  connected ? but  with just = the  driver , sounds a bit  like a earth  link .. = depends=20 how  you  have the  station  wired up , i = am =20 in the  top  front  room of the  house , = so =20 no  direct  earth  , that's  out  in = the =20 shed , where the  tuners  are ,  but  I = need  to  bond  everything  together = to =20 stop  cable  pick = up..

 

73=20 -G..

 

 

 

From: mal hamilton=20

Sent:=20 Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:36 = PM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Subject: Re: LF:=20 opera 500

 

Yes=20 Graham

This=20 seems to be the problem although it recovers quickly but not = quick=20 enough. It happens with very little RF being transmitted at the = driver=20 chip stage without the PA switched=20 on.

de=20 mal/g3kev

 

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: Graham=20

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Sent:=20 Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:00 = PM

Subject: Re:=20 LF: opera 500

 

Mal,

 

Are  = you  sure=20 the  internet/broadband  connection  is = not =20 being  frozen  by the  TX . ?=20

 

I have this  = problem  on 160 and  80  for  some  = reason ,=20 10 watts  and the  web traffic=20 stops

but oddly , = no =20 problem on the  other bands ...so  you  = can =20 miss  the  incoming  spots=20 ..

check  = the =20 psk  map and you  will  see  'who'  = is =20 decoding you ..

 

This  = is  one of=20 the  reasons  a  server handling = the  =20 ros  & opera   s/n  = reports  =20 would  be  a  good  addition  . but = the =20 problem  is  finding  some one or group =  who=20 could construct  such a  piece of  software .. = it=20 can  be  located   on  the  = sever =20 JR runs  ....  still  looking  for =20 offers  on that  .. =

 

73 -G.=20

 

From: mal=20 hamilton

Sent:=20 Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:05=20 AM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Subject: Re:=20 LF: opera 500

 

Tnx=20 Albert

But why=20 am I not seeing this info on the right hand windiow. You are = S9=20 audible

 

mal/g3kev

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: Albert=20

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Sent:=20 Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:40=20 AM

Subject: Re:=20 LF: opera 500

 

Op 18-2-2012 = 11:12, mal=20 hamilton schreef:=20

mf

Does=20 anyone copy my op4 on 501.5 at present. No database feedback = from=20 anyone

mal/g3kev

 

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de PA0LCE Op4 495 km -9 dB in LAGE MIERDE=20 JO21NJ

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de PA3ABK Op4 443 km -3 dB in Dordrecht

=

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de G3ZJO Op4 229 km -26 dB in Northampton

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de ON6EO Op4  -4 dB in=20 JO11LE

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de PA0ONO Op4 421 km -13 dB in Rotterdam

=

10:16   =20 500 G3KEV de PA0A Op4 461 km -1 dB in Lucaswolde=20 JO33DE

10:15   =20 500 G3ZJO de G3ZJO Op4 0 km +6 dB in Northampton with .0002w + = 5m inv=20 L-rx mini=20 = whip

<= /BLOCKQUOTE> ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CCF0B6.493EAC60--