X-GM-THRID: 1220019571309041543 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf X-Gmail-Received: 4865ea2ebaffbf1bc1719d05cfcb140abf4d6f52 Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.70.124.5 with SMTP id w5cs113535wxc; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:48:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.185.16 with SMTP id i16mr874852huf.1163501330589; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:48:50 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 11si9763235hug.2006.11.14.02.48.46; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:48:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Gjvkn-0000po-LQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:42:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Gjvkn-0000pf-6P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:42:57 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjvld-0000sl-PJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:43:52 +0000 Received: from [147.197.215.113] (helo=tucana.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1Gjvkb-00034H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:42:45 +0000 Received: from [147.197.164.230] (helo=RD40002) by tucana.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1GjvkZ-00015r-7L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:42:43 +0000 From: "james moritz" To: Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:42:42 -0000 Message-ID: <001a01c707d9$9d220aa0$e6a4c593@RD40002> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-UH-MailScanner: No Virus detected X-UH-MailScanner-Information: X-H-UH-MailScanner: No Virus detected X-UH-MailScanner-From: j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: LPF coils and VY1JA to 1W ERP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3529 Dear LF Group, I'll try sending this again... -----Original Message----- From: james moritz [mailto:j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk]=20 Sent: 13 November 2006 17:03 To: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' Subject: RE: LPF coils and VY1JA to 1W ERP Dear J, LF Group, If the low-pass filter is introducing a small phase shift, it could be because: 1)The component values are off a bit. The various reactances in the = filter should cancel out at the operating frequency to give a resistive load impedance at the input of the filter. But any error in any component = value will result in a net reactive impedance, and so a phase shift. It is = quite difficult to produce these components with high accuracy; in particular, air-cored coils will tend to have their inductance reduced slightly by nearby metal objects (or increased if close to ferrite cores). Mutual coupling between the coils would also alter the impedance. I don't know = what the capabilities of an MFJ-257 are, but most of these analysers are specified for 1.8MHz and above - if measuring at 1.8MHz, the apparent = coil inductance will be different to that measured at 137kHz due to = distributed capacitance, varying permeability etc. If actually measuring at 137kHz, = the accuracy of the instrument may be degraded. 2)The filter design does not actually give you a resistive input = impedance. The way LC low-pass filters actually "reject" unwanted frequencies is by producing a huge impedance mismatch at the unwanted high frequencies = (where the input impedance is almost all reactance and no resistance), transitioning around the cut-off frequency to a small, but usually not = zero, mismatch within the wanted frequency range (mostly resistance with a = small reactance component). Even well below the cut-off frequency, most = low-pass filter designs result in some small mismatch at most frequencies. It is possible to design filters with a perfect match at one or more spot frequencies, but this depends on the design method used. Either way, you could get back to a resistive load at the filter input = by re-tuning the antenna to produce a slightly reactive load at the output = of the filter, which will cancel the reactance introduced by the filter. = Or, you could try adding or subtracting 1 or 2 turns from the toroidal = coils. In any case, if the phase shift is only a few degrees, it won't make much difference to the TX. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU