Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.150]) by air-mf09.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMF092-8bfa4d077625302; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 08:50:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B60A13800035D; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 08:50:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PSVFd-0005UH-1F for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:49:09 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PSVFc-0005U8-CP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:49:08 +0000 Received: from out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.244]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PSVFa-0003WZ-DR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:49:08 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Al4FABIFB01cEYDe/2dsb2JhbACRVwOGcos+eMF8hUoEgWCMSYJY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.59,342,1288569600"; d="scan'208,217";a="472139112" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.17.128.222]) by out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 14 Dec 2010 13:48:59 +0000 Message-ID: <001701cb9b95$a5dc1f10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <612542AE1A3F497CB206279B0F0F8ECA@IBM7FFA209F07C> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:48:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: LF: Re: Re: G3XBM - very long carrier VLF transmission test Dec 15th Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01CB9B95.A5A53090" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40964d077623421c X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CB9B95.A5A53090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris Generally speaking if you want to propagate a LF signal that covers hu= ndreds of Kilometres use an elevated Aerial and a good ground system. The earth electrode TX and ground wires system is only intended for sh= ort distances and received using the same method, howerver there will= be RF leakage and signals will also be copied at short distances usi= ng an elevated aerial but maybe copied further afield when the TX stat= ion is using several hundred watts or Kilowatts. There is a lot of misleading and spectulative information about regar= ding earth electrode antennas. What some are using for so called anten= nas I am using as a ground for my elevated antennas. g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chris=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 12:18 PM Subject: LF: Re: G3XBM - very long carrier VLF transmission test Dec= 15th Hi Roger, I was under the impression that your earlier tests had shown that re= ception from your earth electrodes at any distance was only possible= by also using earth electrodes. This suggests that those of us using= an aerial stand little or no chance, correct? From what I recall of tests done forty or so years ago with friends,= using wideband audio into the ground, any form of 'in air' reception= attempt was seriously bad. The reception of a signal injected into th= e earth as the conduction medium also required the receive system to= be in the same medium i.e. the earth. Do prove me wrong...and good luck with the tests. Vy 73, Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger Lapthorn=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; Nick Swales ; Chris Osborn ; Ga= ry - G4WGT ; vlf0308@abelian.org ; paula.taylor@metoffice.gov.uk=20 Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 10:51 PM Subject: LF: G3XBM - very long carrier VLF transmission test Dec= 15th This Wednesday, Dec 15th, I will run tests on 8.7608kHz with very= long continuous TX periods of several hours interspersed with gaps of= 0.5 to 1 hour. Transmissions will start at 0900GMT and finish at 2300= GMT. I will reveal the TX pattern after the test so the test is done= "blind". I'd be most grateful if suitably equipped stations could look for= any possible signs of the signal, even though I shall only be using= the 20m spaced earth electrodes and 5W as used for my local earthmode= tests. Those able to screw the bandwidths right down may just be able= to detect something, although I think it is unlikely at any great dis= tance. 15.12.10 =20 0900-2300z =20 8.7608kHz =20 Carrier "on" periods of 30mins or more Good luck to anyone having a go. 73s Roger G3XBM --=20 g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ www.g3xbm.co.uk www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CB9B95.A5A53090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris
Generally speaking if you want to pro= pagate a LF=20 signal that covers hundreds of Kilometres use an elevated Aerial and= a good=20 ground system.
The earth electrode TX and groun= d wires=20 system is only intended for short distances and received&nbs= p;using=20 the same method, howerver there will be RF leakage and signals wi= ll also be=20 copied  at short distances using an elevated aerial but maybe cop= ied=20 further afield when the TX station is using several hundred watts= or=20 Kilowatts.
 There is a lot of misleading an= d spectulative=20 information about regarding earth electrode antennas. What some are us= ing for so=20 called antennas I am using as a ground for my elevated antennas.
g3kev
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Chris
Sent: Tuesday, December 14,= 2010 12:18=20 PM
Subject: LF: Re: G3XBM - very= long=20 carrier VLF transmission test Dec 15th

Hi Roger,
I was under the impression that you= r earlier=20 tests had shown that reception from your earth electrodes at any dis= tance was=20 only possible by also using earth electrodes. This suggests that tho= se of us=20 using an aerial stand little or no chance, correct?
From what I recall of tests done fo= rty or so=20 years ago with friends, using wideband audio into the ground, any fo= rm of 'in=20 air' reception attempt was seriously bad. The reception of a signal= injected=20 into the earth as the conduction medium also required the receive sy= stem to be=20 in the same medium i.e. the earth.
Do prove me wrong...and good luck= with the=20 tests.
Vy 73,
Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 12,= 2010 10:51=20 PM
Subject: LF: G3XBM - very= long carrier=20 VLF transmission test Dec 15th

This Wednesday, Dec 15th, I will run tests on=20 8.7608kHz with very long continuous TX periods of severa= l=20 hours interspersed with gaps of 0.5 to 1 hour. Transmissions= will start=20 at 0900GMT and finish at 2300GMT. I will reveal the TX pattern aft= er the=20 test so the test is done "blind".

I'd be most grateful if= suitably=20 equipped stations could look for any possible signs of the signal,= even=20 though I shall only be using the 20m spaced earth electrodes and= 5W as used=20 for my local earthmode tests. Those able to screw the bandwidths= right down=20 may just be able to detect something, although I think it is unlik= ely at any=20 great distance.

15.12.10   &nbs= p;=20
0900-2300z 
8.7608kHz   = =20
Carrier "on" periods of 30mins or more
Good luck=20 to anyone having a go.

73s
Roger G3XBM
--
g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
www.g3xbm.co.uk
www.youtube.com= /user/g3xbm
G3XBM   GQRP 1678    ISWL=20 G11088
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