X-GM-THRID: 1212628923912627691 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf X-Gmail-Received: bc031ed94e9e1c90355ea8b4f90eb754e3a09f79 Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.249.16 with SMTP id w16cs388041qbh; Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.43.2 with SMTP id v2mr4350588nfj; Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id n23si5174910nfc.2006.08.24.13.57.37; Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (gmail.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) DomainKey-Status: bad (test mode) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1GGMDF-0002Gg-Gs for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:54:05 +0100 Received: from [193.82.59.130] (helo=relay2.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1GGMDE-0002GX-S6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:54:04 +0100 Received: from smtp808.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.68]) by relay2.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.51) id 1GGMDA-0001os-E4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:54:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 81437 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2006 20:52:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=TRgtDOUmFM4ufH2q5g+MU8t7wW6CnGTuBvmpaNlO+AcS/MHzVKBVA957LCX1zFODIECpgCPnW33nloXb3TyYxH+c+l1v3sWb6AIJkNp8MmTYUWOU61BRFJrmosKaWDyExsgpRxsgZuKrOVV/2+zBaklW8HOyzzjymCdKtkN6N44= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?213.122.49.18?) (james.moritz@btopenworld.com@213.122.49.18 with login) by smtp808.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Aug 2006 20:52:50 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.405 [268.11.5/426]); Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:49:48 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c6c7be$d6714920$12317ad5@w4o8m9> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <001b01c6c7a4$2ca4f550$6501a8c0@eagles> Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:49:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,AWL=-0.565 Subject: LF: Re: TX output problem, still need helpl Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4636 Dear J, LF group, I assume you mean the voltage waveform across the dummy load is the one that has the humps - which would indicate a significant odd harmonic content at the output of the low-pass filter. Assuming the low-pass has the correct component values, and so low attenuation at 137k and reasonably high attenuation at harmonics of 137k, this implies an enormous harmonic content at the input side of the filter - probably more 3rd and 5th harmonic than there is fundamental.. So the next thing to look at is the waveform on the input side of the filter. In a well-behaved current-switching class D stage, the waveform at the input of the low pass filter should be a reasonable aproximation to a sine wave, probably with some kinks and wiggles due to the "ringing" produced by the switching operation. On the drain of each MOSFET, there should be a waveform that looks roughly like a half-wave rectified sine wave, i.e. near 0V during 1/2 of the period, and the positive half of a sine wave for the other half. In practice, the real waveform is somewhat distorted and usually has various spikes and wiggles, especially around the switching points. At the centre tap of the transformer, there should be a waveform something like a full-wave rectified sine wave, with about half the amplitude of the drain waveform. again, there will probably be various switching transients present. The gates of the MOSFETs should have reasonable antiphase square waves, with levels of around 0V, 10 - 15V. If this is the case, then the problem lies with the low-pass filter, but it seems more likely you will not see these waveforms. Let us know what you do see... BTW, to reduce the casualty rate among the MOSFETs, you can reduce the DC drain supply voltage to the PA. Because of the switching nature of the circuit, all the voltage and current waveforms will be virtually the same shape, just scaled down in amplitude. If you run it off less than 5V, it is unlikely that the MOSFETs will blow up even under fault conditions. Obviously, the gate drive voltage must stay at the original level to achieve proper switching of the MOSFETs. This saves a lot of time and money when experimenting with switching PAs. You wrote: > The only variable which I know of is the output transformer, final choke and > RF bypass capacitor. Since I suspected the output transformer I have taken > it apart and rewound it with several windings, on two different cores, all > suggested by different friends who are technically sound. There are NO > insulator disks between the core halves, and at 56 Watts of input the core > cannot be saturating. The latest winding matches the Jim Moritz, M0BMU > alternative for the G0MRF amp on page 77 of LF Today. with taps on the > output winding to set power output to lower values Are you using the same circuit as the "M0BMU alternative"? Specifically, there should only be a bypass capacitor on the DC supply side of the feed choke, there should be no bypass capacitor connected to the centre tap of the output transformer primary. If there is one, it very likely will result in huge amounts of harmonics being present, and the odd waveform you are getting. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU