Return-Path: Received: from rly-db03.mx.aol.com (rly-db03.mail.aol.com [172.19.130.78]) by air-db08.mail.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDB083-ab449576f583c2; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 07:21:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-db03.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDB032-ab449576f583c2; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 07:21:46 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1LGudR-00051Z-Nw for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:20:45 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1LGudR-00051Q-A1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:20:45 +0000 Received: from smtp804.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.64]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LGudQ-0000KB-J8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:20:45 +0000 Received: (qmail 18626 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2008 12:20:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=oJEIoTr6bI9NmReiJQ0tPzmiM0qz8hayKcxEolEWWTcY527YFwLjXnEynOrR/t1qInJnenjaGeFAizLcmMZ7GbzmU20gVD2CSvDvYHy28aPiRUNEzVgJpLoD3TugdqJI3gfEPN3JrnmfwO0+FNV5jGAjpZJSqbNvvKXKXA9iUEI= ; Received: from unknown (HELO w4o8m9) (james.moritz@86.134.108.92 with login) by smtp804.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2008 12:20:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: xmwyVUYVM1kf4TgDzjb4kIllM_YPSd1Xf0OJgbp45PIQppqxhpA1kWjD4N5Qv7R02anWOEnmEcvZBBsnAUUtg4.0.GLC5pwDH.NGkc9MVO7vyekS3pr8gjlUlzkL2mo_DXEv5GfUzLhOlxW2ZKZ68mb6tfI9adtFRsD6Hzwv.x7SwqcMW5xPEWdgYeOJ X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.5.552 [270.10.0/1866]); Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:19:44 +0000 Message-ID: <001601c968e6$912297e0$4201a8c0@home> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <4956BFEE.19110.2EE6D21@v.d.heide.on-line.de> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:19:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Karma: 0: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: WSPR and CW Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Klaus, Laurence, LF Group, I have been doing some experiments with WSPR on 2 PCs linked by audio cables. I would certainly agree with KL1X about the importance of clock accuracy - I found that an error of 5 seconds was enough to completely prevent decoding. Fortunately, the clock on my shack PC is accurate enough that setting it against an MSF-controlled clock once every several hours is OK. I also found that the "QSO version" of WSPR in WSJT 7 and the WSPR 1.01 beacon software will correctly decode each other's signals, although in either case the QSO mode requires reception of all the overs of the QSO in order to display the callsigns, due to the format used. When using the beacon software for reception, be aware that it may take some minutes for the decode to appear after the signal has been received - this seems to be due to the "off line" nature of the signal processing used. Recent experience here is that the WSPR mode offers advantages compared to CW, either manual or QRSS, on the 500kHz band due to the low SNR and the fading experienced. Many signals are either always below the audible noise, or not audible for long enough for aural CW copy without large numbers of repeats. With QRSS, and a sufficiently long dot period, one can indeed detect very weak signals, but the fading often prevents receiving, for example, a complete callsign without losing some symbols and so also requiring repeats. QRSS works much better on 136k, where the fading period is much longer. WSPR certainly decodes signals that are too weak for aural reception. In sensitivity terms, I think it is comparable to QRSS 3. WSPR has the advantage over QRSS 3 that the message duration is shorter. The 2 minute transmission period of WSPR is a reasonable match to the fading period experienced on 500kHz, so there is a good chance of sending the message successfully before the signal fades out. I have yet to see any readable trans-atlantic CW or QRSS signals at this QTH, while copy of WE2XGR//2 using WSPR was reasonably consistent, producing a decode for about 25% of the transmissions. The redundancy in the data should also make WSPR relatively resistant to errors caused by QRN impulses, although the QRN level has been low here recently. For beacon purposes, WSPR also has the huge advantage that reception, logging and reporting is automated, so the operator can go to bed sometimes! While WSPR does work well, I don't think it is the final word in LF/MF digital modes - In particular, the information in a QSO is largely restricted to "rubber stamp" exchanges. So I will certainly be interested in trying other modes, and look forward to see the results of Klaus' work. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU