Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.23]) by air-da05.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDA054-86654d5a5d4e70; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 06:02:38 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6AF4638000092; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 06:02:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PpIek-0002P2-SK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:01:18 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PpIej-0002Ot-An for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:01:17 +0000 Received: from out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.242]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PpIeh-00056E-FQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:01:17 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag8BAEPrWU1cHYu5/2dsb2JhbACCSoFTjnyDZY5dc6tLkGqEaHYEgWONbYJy X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,473,1291593600"; d="scan'208,217";a="490660159" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.29.139.185]) by out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2011 11:01:06 +0000 Message-ID: <001301cbccff$a30b61b0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <6AD920D46A4546ECB1E0FF76E739307C@AGB> <574378.8641.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:01:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJECT_ENCODED_TWICE=1.543 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Re:_LF:_RE:_Alignment_of__=28N?= =?utf-8?Q?arrow_Band=29_DATA__and__WSPR__fre?= =?utf-8?Q?quency=E2=80=99s_on_the__500_KHz__band.?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01CBCCFF.A2A992A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41174d5a5d4c45f3 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CBCCFF.A2A992A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete You do need some sort of order especially with mixed modes, otherwise= we will all end up on top of one another. It works all right on HF. mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M0FMT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 10:10 AM Subject: LF: Re: LF: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR fr= equency=E2=80=99s on the 500 KHz band. Band plans are a bad idea all it does is great unofficial RSGB Polic= emen that make life a pain like they have done on VHF here in the UK..= ....... Any way the band is only on loan. =20 73 es GL petefmt=20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Cc: Joe Taylor Sent: Tue, 15 February, 2011 7:23:06 Subject: LF: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency= =E2=80=99s on the 500 KHz band. Hello Graham, I would suggest to have all digital modes as close as possible to th= e band edges, leaving the band centre for CW. For WSPR there are currently 2 segments: one for EU stations to tran= smit on (503.9kHz +/- 100Hz) and one NA stations to transmit on (501.1= kHz +/- 100Hz) to avoid local QRM (or better said RX overload).=20 So 503.7kHz +/- 100Hz and/or 501.3kHz +/- 100Hz for other digimodes= ? It would be possible to have a single data segment for EU and NA it= we go from frequency division to time division: if all EU stations wo= uld transmit in the xx:00-xx:02, xx:04-xx:06, xx:08-xx:10 ... time slo= ts and all NA stations in the xx:02-xx:04, xx:06-xx-08 ... time slots= they can use the same frequency without local QRM. But this would require a minor chang in the WSPR software (and maybe= also other software). 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] namens Graham [g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk] Verzonden: dinsdag 15 februari 2011 2:20 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org CC: Joe Taylor Onderwerp: LF: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=E2= =80=99s on the 500 KHz band. Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=E2=80=99s on= the 500 KHz band. The original wspr frequency 502.4 was defined as the working= frequency to utilise the =E2=80=98clean=E2=80=99 area just under= the 504 harmonic, whilst avoiding the various beacons running = across the 501/504 band at the time. However, time has moved on= and there are now numerous =E2=80=98dial setting=E2=80=99s=E2=80=99= in use both sides of the Atlantic. Due to an apparent increase in the side band noise from the = 504 signal , possibly by enhanced propagation , the ROS MF (100= hz b/w) working frequency is to be re defined as 500 USB dial se= t giving a centre carrier frequency of 501.500 =20 Due to Ae bandwidth and perhaps alignment with other band= =E2=80=99s, I would suggest the original WSPR 502.4K is replaced= with the lower frequency of 495.9K , thus restoring the System= =E2=80=99s coverage and facilitating changes of mode etc within a= narrow bandwidth.=20 I don=E2=80=99t see this detracting from the monitoring of spot= frequency beacons over 505Khz , but more appropriate to transm= itting stations , which by the nature of the antenna arrays are = not able comfortably to qsy from top to bottom of the band= without re-tuning, not always a simple option. Comments or suggestions please ?. Graham G0NBD ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CBCCFF.A2A992A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pete
You do need some sort of order especially with= mixed=20 modes, otherwise we will all end up on top of one another.
It works all right on HF.
mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 M0FMT=
Sent: Tuesday, February 15,= 2011 10:10=20 AM
Subject: LF: Re: LF: RE: Alig= nment of=20 (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=E2=80=99s on the 500 KHz band.=

Band plans are a bad idea all it does is great unofficial RSGB= Policemen=20 that make life a pain like they have done on VHF here in the UK.....= .... Any=20 way the band is only on loan.
 
73 es GL petefmt=20


From: Rik Strobbe &l= t;Rik.Strobbe@fys.k= uleuven.be>
To: "rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org"=20 <rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org>
C= c: Joe Taylor <= joe@Princeton.EDU>
= Sent: Tue, 15 February, 2011=20 7:23:06
Subject:= LF: RE:=20 Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=E2=80=99s on the= 500 KHz=20 band.

Hello Graham,
 
I would suggest to have all digita= l modes as=20 close as possible to the band edges, leaving the band centre for=20 CW.
For WSPR there are currently&= nbsp;2=20 segments: one for EU stations to transmit on (503.9kHz +/- 100Hz) an= d one NA=20 stations to transmit on (501.1kHz +/- 100Hz) to avoid local QRM (or= better=20 said RX overload).
So 503.7kHz +/- 100Hz and/or 501.3= kHz +/- 100Hz=20 for other digimodes ?
It would be possible to have a sin= gle data=20 segment for EU and NA it we go from frequency division to time divis= ion: if=20 all EU stations would transmit in the xx:00-xx:02, xx:04-xx:06, xx:0= 8-xx:10=20 ... time slots and all NA stations in the xx:02-xx:04, xx:06-xx-08= ... time=20 slots they can use the same frequency without local QRM.
But this would require a minor cha= ng in the WSPR=20 software (and maybe also other software).
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T<= /DIV>
 
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.o= rg] namens=20 Graham [g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk]
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 feb= ruari 2011=20 2:20
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
CC: Joe= =20 Taylor
Onderwerp: LF: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and= WSPR=20 frequency=E2=80=99s on the 500 KHz band.

Alignment of  (Narrow Band) DATA  and=20  WSPR  frequency=E2=80=99s on th= e  500=20 KHz  band.

 

The  original wspr frequency=20   502.4  was =20 defined  as the =20 working  frequency  to =20 utilise the  =E2=80=98clean=E2=80=99 area  just=20 under the  504  harmonic, whilst= avoiding=20 the  various  beacons = ;=20 running  across  the =20 501/504  band at the  tim= e.=20 However, time has moved on and there are now numerous =E2=80=98dial= setting=E2=80=99s=E2=80=99 in use=20 both sides of the Atlantic.

 

Due=20 to  an apparent  increase&= nbsp;=20 in the  side band =20 noise  from the  504 sign= al ,=20 possibly by  enhanced  propagati= on ,=20 the  ROS  MF  (100 hz b/w)= =20 working  frequency is  to be re= defined=20 as  500  USB dial  set =20 giving a  centre =20 carrier  frequency of 501.500=20  

 

Due  to  Ae =20 bandwidth and  perhaps=20  alignment  with =20  other   band=E2=80=99s,=20  I   would  suggest=20 the original WSPR  502.4K is =20 replaced  with the  lower= frequency=20  of  495.9K , thus = =20 restoring the  System=E2=80=99s = coverage=20 and  facilitating  changes=  =20 of mode etc within a  narrow bandwidth.

 

I don=E2=80=99t=20  see  this =20 detracting  from the monitoring = of=20 spot  frequency  beacons&n= bsp;=20 over 505Khz , but more  appropriate&n= bsp; =20 to  transmitting  station= s ,=20 which  by the  nature of the =20 antenna arrays are  not =20 able  comfortably  to =20 qsy  from  top = ;=20 to  bottom of the  band= =20 without  re-tuning, not  always a  simple =20 option.

 

Comments  or  suggestions=20 please ?.

 

Graham

G0NBD

 




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