X-GM-THRID: 1207048289115328860 X-Gmail-Labels: rsgb lf X-Gmail-Received: 1bd4731f4b7e34f9a81268bdb9f829c7811df7e8 Delivered-To: daveyxm@gmail.com Received: by 10.54.127.17 with SMTP id z17cs6302wrc; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.59.5 with SMTP id m5mr3166010nfk; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id r34si3741831nfc.2006.06.23.23.35.51; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (gmail.com: 193.82.116.20 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Fu1g7-0006ak-7i for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:31:35 +0100 Received: from [193.82.59.130] (helo=relay2.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Fu1g6-0006ab-Gt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:31:34 +0100 Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.201]) by relay2.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.51) id 1Fu1g2-0007ou-AE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:31:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 42350 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2006 06:31:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO LAPTOP) (peter.martinez@btinternet.com@81.159.158.22 with login) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jun 2006 06:31:24 -0000 Message-ID: <001101c69757$d0da6380$0300a8c0@LAPTOP> From: "Peter Martinez" To: References: <521.130bed0.31cc71fb@aol.com> <002301c69690$4cd321c0$5ac428c3@captbrian> <200606231019250198.1433C814@smtp.wanadoo.fr> <005f01c696a6$b55dd1c0$5ac428c3@captbrian> <449C03E7.9010007@wanadoo.fr> <002001c696e3$74317a20$0300a8c0@LAPTOP> <00a701c696f5$5231ff00$5ac428c3@captbrian> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 06:31:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: -0.2 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,AWL=-0.248 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Top-fed LF antenna idea Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5113 >From G3PLX: Dave/Brian/Jim/all.. Thanks for the feedback. I also received one from Bob VE7BS describing his pal's results from the top of a tower block with a whip on top-band. Brian's point about ships antennas is one I also recall seeing mentioned in G3LNP's article about his top-fed tower. It seems that the early workers just calculated the effective height of the antenna measured from the radio cabin, not from the sea surface, and were surprised at how good the results were. I think there has been a blind spot in conventional understanding of how a small antenna fed against 'ground' works when it's sitting ontop of something else, and it seemed to me that if we took this into account, a lot more interesting locations might suggest themselves for LF working. We don't need to be able to actually see and touch the conductors involved in the process of carrying the current up and down the structure in order to know that we are using it as an antenna. If I sit on the top of my tower with some sort of whip or capacity hat out in clear space, and I can measure that I am poking a useful amount of RF current into it, then I don't need to go to great lengths to trace how this current is getting back down the tower to ground. In particular I don't need to run a wire down the side of the tower and worry about how to ground it at the bottom. I can assume the current is flowing down the tower because there's simply nowhere else it can go. If a meter at the base of the whip registers 1 amp then that's 1 amp flowing down the whole height of the tower. I can then just measure the height of the tower above the surrounding terrain, derive the radiation resistance (using the full height, not half of it), and estimate the erp from that. As I said in my RadCom letter, a small antenna fed 'against ground' at a height of H metres is a vertical antenna H metres tall. This is clearly only true if the structures in question are small compared to a wavelength, but this is certainly going to be true for 2.2km waves. What would be useful now is to see how easy or difficult it might be to push a decent amount of RF current into a whip from the top of something tall. 73 Peter