Envelope-to: dave@picks.force9.co.uk Delivery-date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:20:19 +0000 Received: by ptb-mxcore02.plus.net with spam-scanned (PlusNet MXCore v2.00) id 1F4G26-0002fS-1J for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:20:19 +0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com ([193.82.116.20]) by ptb-mxcore02.plus.net with esmtp (PlusNet MXCore v2.00) id 1F4G25-0002bS-Pi for dave@picks.force9.co.uk; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:20:18 +0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1F4G1q-0000Xh-Bz for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:20:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.59.130] (helo=relay2.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1F4G1p-0000XY-Eg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:20:01 +0000 Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.201]) by relay2.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.51) id 1F4GjZ-0006rR-RG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:05:16 +0000 Received: (qmail 28203 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 11:19:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lark) (alan.melia@btinternet.com@81.131.24.29 with login) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 11:19:55 -0000 Message-ID: <001001c62721$6fa49960$67b0fea9@lark> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <020120060225.29276.43E01C11000B4FD10000725C22064244130B97010D0A020E06979D0E03@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 11:14:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Subject: Re: LF: XGJ..Decca Litz Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-PN-SpamFiltered: by PlusNet MXCore (v2.00) Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Mike and all, you need to be a bit carefull talking about the Decca Litz, because the coils were substantially air spaced. They are not solenoid wound, but more like a basket wind. There were several parallel strands of wire, "wavewound" on large formers with, I would estimate (I have disassembled my coil), about 0.5in. between layers ( plus the lateral distance of wavewind) So It was not dependent on the insulation. I have some Litzwire from that source that has only cotton insulation (DCC) but i dont know what this was used for. The wire on the coils has a thin plastic sheath over the cotton, but I think this is only intended for mechanical strength to protect the cotton cover during the winding process, and subsequent chaffing on the perspex (Lucite ??) separator "combs".
 
Cheers de Alan G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From: MIKE REID
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: 01 February 2006 06:25
Subject: Re: LF: XGJ

So it appears to be a dielectric breakdown in one of the insulations of one or both of the core windings. Has anyone done a dielectric test on the Decca Litz wire? I did some on #12 THHN wire a couple years ago and it arced at 5kv AC at 1kc as well as 5kv DC. No burning but it made some Ozone smell and the frying sound. I'll have to do some hi-pot tests Wednesday on the #12 Teflon insulated wire I have on my transformer.
 
This is good information to know. Hopefully others down the road can use this data to design their LF stations.
 
Mike
WE0H
WD2XGI
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: LF: XGJ

Mike,

  The 50 ohm side was made up of Litz wire from the Decca tank coil. The loop side was #4 stranded wire with pvc insulation. 
  After examining the transformer close up it appears that the transformer arced from primary to secondary. This seems to be correlated with the damp rainy weather yesterday, the transmitter was running full power for 6 and a half hours before the transformer arced over.

--
73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ
FN42hi
http://www.w4dex.com/wd2xgj.htm

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "MIKE REID" <>
> What type of insulation & wire gauge did you have before?
>
> Mike
> WE0H
> WD2XGI
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ
>   To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<>
>   Cc: LWCA LF Reflector<mailto:lowfer@lwca.org>
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:18 PM
>   Subject: Re: LF: XGJ
>
>
>
>   Hello the list,
>
>
>         I disassembled the toroidal transformer in the loop ATU and found the
> cores to be good. I will attempt to pick up some teflon insulated wire tomorrow
> and rebuild the transformer, if all goes well will be back on the air tomorrow
> evening.
>
>   --
>   73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ
>   FN42hi
>   http://www.w4dex.com/wd2xgj.htm<http://www.w4dex.com/wd2xgj.htm>
>
>    -------------- Original message ----------------------
>   From: (Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ)
>   > Hello the list,
>   >
>   >   Many thanks for all the reports last night from Hartmut, Jean-Pierre
> (F5YG),
>   > Juan, Gary, and Roelof (Hope I didn't miss anyone!)
>   >
>   >   As many of you have noted the signal dropped off at 03:00 UTC. At 04:00 I
>   > noticed XGJ was very weak on the W3EEE 'grabber'. I went downstairs to the
> radio
>   > shack to investigate. The antenna current (measured at 50 ohms) was less
> than
>   > 100 mA ! It should be approximately 5 Amps from the Decca PA. I checked the
>   > Decca on a dummy load and it was ok. I tried the smaller transmitter and
> noticed
>   > a very high SWR. I went out and looked at the ATU, flashlight in hand. The
>   > secondary of the toroidal step down transformer had arced and burned through
> the 
>   > insulation. I believe that the very high humidity played a part in the
> breakdown
>   > of the insulation.   I will have a look at the transformer today and may be
> able
>   > to repair it if the toroidal core is not damaged.  I am hopeful that the
> core is
>   > o.k. since impedance measurements showed no change and I was able to run the
> 250
>   > watt transmitter into the antenna with a low swr after a period of time
> (after
>   > the tuner cooled down).
>   > I will of course use better insulated wire for the high voltage!
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > --
>   > 73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ
>   > FN42hi
>   > http://www.w4dex.com/wd2xgj.htm<http://www.w4dex.com/wd2xgj.htm>