Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w2HKfQT5015751 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2018 21:41:29 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1exIYl-0003Yw-2X for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2018 20:36:11 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1exIYk-0003Yn-5E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2018 20:36:10 +0000 Received: from resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net ([2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:39]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1exIYf-00036T-W6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2018 20:36:08 +0000 Received: from resomta-ch2-19v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.115]) by resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id xIYbeAH3rfyZvxIYbeWbZ6; Sat, 17 Mar 2018 20:36:01 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=comcast.net Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1521318961; bh=3on1myGwClqIeK/7SrUWzX7n52z7zhR3rHYZki+rUAE=; h=Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=QB0Ns+0AH2vAlPd6irjIThHtukcLVPFdWRG++uBYuQFK5YvFMV3ABWNLf57K5tKYJ rAxEOryLMGxcDgItuJs6t4ePK+GzZ2haO0KBKABbP+4+VSKgNwKofsOz4I1WBhlsSl zNnB0/poAlNKZqIcPN6z3xK2mI/dyePZ5v4m9g4YCR3aCKymypHlYL+rgHb14qRpzJ l3Aij1w42M09x68bPGjNpuUIwUaN+CfFhP39ak50cc03JV+12BUn5jUdGL6uU8pJbg 9rpb3g0GI5hlzDrzBir8VetjB2KOGw2kMPd07G9cZDVy/u8V0MAcitsObD6J+7XyOV gt0G8qWRh7kXQ== Received: from Owner ([IPv6:2601:140:8500:7f9f:64d7:4a3:7578:75d7]) by resomta-ch2-19v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id xIYYejxthrKtjxIYZeC1Ox; Sat, 17 Mar 2018 20:35:59 +0000 From: To: References: <5A95721D.2060008@posteo.de> <5AAA8DBF.80604@posteo.de> <5AAAFB72.80406@posteo.de> <5AABF63A.30909@posteo.de> <5AAD2864.90408@posteo.de> In-Reply-To: <5AAD2864.90408@posteo.de> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 16:35:36 -0400 Message-ID: <000001d3be2f$8ae04410$a0a0cc30$@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKIzU334FzeAwhjuQzQNozowTDYBgEy1pgyA1oWuogBzl0r7QHv3hmMAaRNQSaiG0VaMA== Content-Language: en-us X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfI8sIRiilHSx2PcCiHS9JbjMHsh0DdrNvFu15Z/ucTky6DOmqAr2T/q1CxyUNI0RG39mw+ZM9M52ohVBXoWDHZXhm09ZSbrhWXo8ZXdNtb2iDZKFlb9w W6uekNRHHIq0OokZ9mqAM3CZ+Kbs5xBpno0= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hello Stefan, “One could try to track HWU and its phase and then correct the phase of my signal by the HWU phase” Question: After first subtracting HWU transmitter phase variations (based on HWU-signal phase variations seen at the grabber closest to HWU)? [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (hvanesce[at]comcast.net) -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID BODY: Test for Invalidly Named or Formatted Colors in HTML 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 77f21f6e11988daa90d969af432362a6 Subject: RE: VLF: DL to VK7 ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01D3BE0E.03CEA410" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D3BE0E.03CEA410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan, =20 =E2=80=9COne could try to track HWU and its phase and then correct the = phase of my signal by the HWU phase=E2=80=9D =20 Question: After first subtracting HWU transmitter phase variations = (based on HWU-signal phase variations seen at the grabber closest to = HWU)? =20 In other words, subtract the HWU phase variations seen at the grabber = closest to HWU, from the HWU phase variations seen at Edgar=E2=80=99s = grabber, and use the result to correct the phase of the DK7FC signal = seen at Edgar=E2=80=99s grabber? =20 73, =20 Jim AA5BW =20 =20 =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of DK7FC Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 10:38 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: VLF: DL to VK7 ? =20 VLF,=20 Another file from Edgar. Now we can already compare two individual days = as well as stacked days. As expected, the phase seems to be quite = dynamic making it hard to pass a message to down under. I improved the plot a bit by reducing the measurement interval to 5 = minutes. I also added a trace for a 30 minute carrier which reaches up = to 7.55 dB in 556 uHz! 3 plots are available now. 15 March: = http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/VLF/VK7_15MAR.png 16 March: = http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/VLF/VK7_16MAR.png 15+16 March, unweighted stack: = http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/VLF/VK7_1516MAR.png Unfortunately the stacking does not improve the SNR, it reduces it! This = can be expected from an extremely dynamic propagation as it seems to be. We can now continue to watch a few more individual days and the stacked = days. If the phase is not reproducable at all, the stacked SNR will = become lower each day. If it is reproducable, there will be a peak = building up. Another idea is to correct the phase by using other signals within the = band. HWU on 18.3 kHz is not so far away, regarding location and = frequency. One could try to track HWU and its phase and then correct the = phase of my signal by the HWU phase. Meanwhile i would call this valid = :-) Edgar is already preparing for HWU measurements! 73, Stefan Am 16.03.2018 17:52, schrieb DK7FC:=20 VLF,=20 Edgar has sent me a txt file which i converted into a wav file using = Markus' tools. The file starts 15:11 UTC and covers nearly 9 hours, so = it covers the complete time where i transmitted on 17470.1 Hz. I tried to decode a '*' EbNaut message taking 8 hours, without sucess. Then i moved the file on the Linux PC and tried to decode an '*' EbNaut = message again, which is equal than analysing a carrier.=20 BTW my antenna current was just 900 mA at times. I could run 1.5 A, so = i'm missing 4.4 dB! This is not acceptable at all. I need to build a = better PA quickly. I quickly wrote a script to generate the SNR of a carrier with variable = time offset (in 10 minute steps; relative to the file start) and = variable length. This way we can see how dynamic the propagation = (phase!) changes.=20 Working together with vlfrx tools and Microsoft EXCEL!!! is a thing that = some people don't like :-)=20 But this is how i can do it as fast as possible at the moment.=20 Attached you see a mst confusing series of graphs. Selfeexplaining for = some, but, well you can for example see that a 2 hour long carrier at = 6.3 dB SNR 138.9 uHz can be extracted when applying a time offset of = 4.5 hours to the file start. You can also see that a 4 hour long carrier will only reach about 3 dB = SNR in 69.4 uHz! BTW i ignored the 20 minute transmission break from last night, which = will cause a small error. Now we could generate another set of graphs showing how it looks when = applying the brand new iqnorm script by Paul. And we can see how the curves develop when stacking two or more files! = This will tell something about the reproducability of the obviously = quite dynamic phase... So far so good. The TX is running again, same procedure than = yesterday... 73, Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D3BE0E.03CEA410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Stefan,

 

=E2=80=9COne could try to track HWU and its phase and then correct = the phase of my signal by the HWU phase=E2=80=9D

 

Question: After first subtracting HWU transmitter phase variations = (based on HWU-signal phase variations seen at the grabber closest to = HWU)?

 

In other words, subtract the HWU phase variations seen at the grabber = closest to HWU, =C2=A0from the HWU phase variations seen at = Edgar=E2=80=99s grabber, and use the result to correct the phase of the = DK7FC signal seen at Edgar=E2=80=99s grabber?

 

73,

 

Jim AA5BW

 

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of = DK7FC
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 10:38 = AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: = VLF: DL to VK7 ?

 

VLF, =

Another file from Edgar. Now we can already compare two = individual days as well as stacked days. As expected, the phase seems to = be quite dynamic making it hard to pass a message to down under.
I = improved the plot a bit by reducing the measurement interval to 5 = minutes. I also added a trace for a 30 minute carrier which reaches up = to 7.55 dB in 556 uHz!
3 plots are available now.
15 March: = = http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/VLF/VK7_15MAR.png
16= March: = http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/VLF/VK7_16MAR.png
15= +16 March, unweighted stack: http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/VLF/VK7_1516MAR.png
Unfortunately the stacking does not improve the SNR, it reduces = it! This can be expected from an extremely dynamic propagation as it = seems to be.
We can now continue to watch a few more individual days = and the stacked days. If the phase is not reproducable at all, the = stacked SNR will become lower each day. If it is reproducable, there = will be a peak building up.

Another idea is to correct the phase = by using other signals within the band. HWU on 18.3 kHz is not so far = away, regarding location and frequency. One could try to track HWU and = its phase and then correct the phase of my signal by the HWU phase. = Meanwhile i would call this valid :-) Edgar is already preparing for HWU = measurements!

73, Stefan


Am 16.03.2018 17:52, schrieb = DK7FC:

VLF,

Edgar has sent me a txt file = which i converted into a wav file using Markus' tools. The file starts = 15:11 UTC and covers nearly 9 hours, so it covers the complete time = where i transmitted on 17470.1 Hz.
I tried to decode a '*' EbNaut = message taking 8 hours, without sucess.

Then i moved the file on = the Linux PC and tried to decode an '*' EbNaut message again, which is = equal than analysing a carrier.
BTW my antenna current was just 900 = mA at times. I could run 1.5 A, so i'm missing 4.4 dB! This is not = acceptable at all. I need to build a better PA quickly.

I quickly = wrote a script to generate the SNR of a carrier with variable time = offset (in 10 minute steps; relative to the file start) and variable = length. This way we can see how dynamic the propagation (phase!) = changes.
Working together with vlfrx tools and Microsoft EXCEL!!! is = a thing that some people don't like :-)
But this is how i can do it = as fast as possible at the moment.

Attached you see a mst = confusing series of graphs. Selfeexplaining for some, but, well you can = for example see that a 2 hour long carrier at 6.3 dB SNR 138.9 = uHz can be extracted when applying a time offset of  4.5 = hours to the file start.
You can also see that a 4 hour long carrier = will only reach about 3 dB SNR in 69.4 uHz!
BTW i ignored the 20 = minute transmission break from last night, which will cause a small = error.

Now we could generate another set of graphs showing how it = looks when applying the brand new iqnorm script by Paul.
And we can = see how the curves develop when stacking two or more files! This will = tell something about the reproducability of the obviously quite dynamic = phase...

So far so good. The TX is running again, same procedure = than yesterday...

73, Stefan

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