From: Terry GW0EZY <gw0ezy@sky.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
References: <861077.53684.qm@web28512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>	<863803.39905.qm@web28510.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>	<001701cb8aec$6dd12890$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g>	<AANLkTi=p-kzRxvPYGoF+uupKWKW6UrA5M8fnvH-5UuSO@mail.gmail.com>	<4CEBEEEA.5050403@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>	<001701cb8bb4$1088b540$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <AANLkTimsjD_co5aS-RXBqGyJnQ2H5=tyn2_5b27cD7FU@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimsjD_co5aS-RXBqGyJnQ2H5=tyn2_5b27cD7FU@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 17:21:11 -0000
Message-ID: <000001cb8bfb$fe8a26b0$fb9e7410$@com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Thread-Index: AcuLwpzAaOKGvOtTSSSjndys3DvBGAAC7Zyw
Content-Language: en-gb
Subject: RE: LF: Re: VLF Transmissions
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CB8BFB.FE8A26B0"
Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org


------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CB8BFB.FE8A26B0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sorry for the regulatory jargon below but for interest/information, so=
me relevant agenda items at  the next WRC 2012 (all publicly available=
 information from the ITU and CEPT/ERO websites)

=20

1.10  (safety systems for ships and ports);=20

1.16 passive systems for lightning detection in the meteorological aid=
s service, including the possibility of an allocation in the frequency=
 range below 20 kHz

1.23 an allocation of about 15 kHz in parts of the band 415- 526.5 kHz=
 to the amateur service on a secondary basis

=20

The CEPT Conference Preparatory Group is developing the European Commo=
n Positions and Briefs for the WRC (as CEPT members the UK and German=
 (etc) administrations will have agreed these)=20

=20

Some extracts of CEPT positions already developed  for the items above=
:

=20

1.10 CEPT supports the exclusive primary allocation to the MMS in the=
 band 495=E2=80=91505 kHz

1.16 CEPT supports a primary allocation for MetAids in the band 8.3 -1=
1.3 kHz for passive applications.

1.23 that studies have taken into account CEPT proposals under agenda=
 1.10 in this frequency range; some (CEPT) administrations are of the=
 view that an additional allocation of 15 kHz to the amateur service=
 in the frequency band 415-526.5 kHz is not feasible because it would=
 result in unacceptable harmful interference to the stations operating=
 in the radiocommunication services allocated in the mentioned frequen=
cy band. There is no common position yet and discussions continue.

=20

Further info on 1.16:

=20

Although the maximum spectral emission of cloud to ground lightning st=
rikes is centred between about 5 and 20 kHz, spectrum bandwidth of lig=
htning stroke can reach several megahertz. The possible operation rang=
e of systems for lightning detection is determined by the used frequen=
cy band. In the frequency range 5-20 kHz the sky waves propagate over=
 very large distances with relatively little attenuation. Thus, it is=
 possible to receive the emissions from the cloud to ground strokes at=
 thousands of kilometres from the stroke location.

The optimal frequency for ATD spectral emission measurements is around=
 9.766 kHz. However, the frequency 13.733 kHz is successfully used by=
 the existing ATD systems for measurements, with a reduction of existi=
ng system performance seen at 9.766 kHz.

=20

Long-range lightning detection using observations near 10 kHz has been=
 performed in the UK since 1939, originally with a very manpower-inten=
sive system measuring the direction from which signals were received,=
 and then since 1987 with an automated Arrival Time Difference system=
 (ATD) using the time differences of signal received to derive strike=
 locations. Now, with modern sensor systems and communications it is=
 possible to monitor the radio frequency received at the sensor in rea=
l time. Recent monitoring since [2004] has shown that it was not pract=
ical to use the frequency 9.765625 kHz at all the sensor sites, becaus=
e of powerful transmissions near 10 kHz in some locations which preven=
ted the operation of the passive sensors. Thus, the current system is=
 operating at 13.733 kHz as noted in Fig. 1

=20

The 3 dB bandwidth of existing lightning detection systems is approxim=
ately 2.5 kHz and hence an allocation of between 3 and 5 kHz bandwidth=
 would be required

=20

Currently the spectrum below 9 kHz is not allocated to any service but=
 the following footnotes apply:

=20

5.53        Administrations authorizing the use of frequencies below=
 9 kHz shall ensure that no harmful interference is caused thereby to=
 the services to which the bands above 9 kHz are allocated.

5.54        Administrations conducting scientific research using frequ=
encies below 9 kHz are urged to advise other administrations that may=
 be concerned in order that such research may be afforded all practica=
ble protection from harmful interference.

=20

Because of the agenda item at the next WRC. I guess administrations (a=
nd Met organisations) are a bit jumpy about allowing precedents for ot=
her services before a decision is taken by the WRC. The chances of a=
 common CEPT agreement on access conditions for amateurs before the WR=
C is dreamland stuff!! If each country waited, nothing would happen.=
 Each administration is playing it by ear and trying to demonstrate it=
 is complying with the Radio Regulations =E2=80=93 however illogical=
 the individual conditions might appear to amateurs.

=20

=20

Finally, has anyone on this forum seen proposals for a =E2=80=9CNew 50=
0 kHz network=E2=80=9D?

=20

http://olivier.marsan.free.fr/N5NTW/NEW500KHZNETWORK.html

=20

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CB8BFB.FE8A26B0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas=
-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:off=
ice:word" xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"=
 xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=3DCo=
ntent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta name=3DGenerat=
or content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
=09{font-family:"Cambria Math";
=09panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
=09{font-family:Calibri;
=09panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
=09{margin:0cm;
=09margin-bottom:.0001pt;
=09font-size:12.0pt;
=09font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
=09{mso-style-priority:99;
=09color:blue;
=09text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
=09{mso-style-priority:99;
=09color:purple;
=09text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
=09{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
=09font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
=09color:#1F497D;}
p.WW-Default, li.WW-Default, div.WW-Default
=09{mso-style-name:WW-Default;
=09margin:0cm;
=09margin-bottom:.0001pt;
=09font-size:12.0pt;
=09font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
=09color:black;}
.MsoChpDefault
=09{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page WordSection1
=09{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
=09margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
=09{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
=09{mso-list-id:3;
=09mso-list-type:simple;
=09mso-list-template-ids:3;
=09mso-list-name:WW8Num3;}
@list l0:level1
=09{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
=09mso-level-text:=EF=82=B7;
=09mso-level-tab-stop:0cm;
=09mso-level-number-position:left;
=09text-indent:-18.0pt;
=09mso-ascii-font-family:Symbol;
=09mso-hansi-font-family:Symbol;}
ol
=09{margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
=09{margin-bottom:0cm;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblu=
e vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1=
F497D'>Sorry for the regulatory jargon below but for interest/informat=
ion, some relevant agenda items at =C2=A0the next WRC 2012 (all public=
ly available information from the ITU and CEPT/ERO websites)<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>1.10 =C2=A0(safety systems for shi=
ps and ports); <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
>1.16 passive systems for lightning detection in the meteorological ai=
ds service, including the possibility of an allocation in the frequenc=
y range below 20 kHz<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1=
F497D'>1.23 an allocation of about 15 kHz in parts of the band 415- 52=
6.5 kHz to the amateur service on a secondary basis<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The CEPT Conference Preparatory Group is de=
veloping the European Common Positions and Briefs for the WRC (as CEPT=
 members the UK and German (etc) administrations will have agreed thes=
e) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Some extracts of CEPT=
 positions already developed =C2=A0for the items above:<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>1.10 CEPT supports the exclusive primar=
y allocation to the MMS in the band 495=E2=80=91505 kHz<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>1.16 CEPT supports a primary=
 allocation for MetAids in the band 8.3 -11.3 kHz for passive applicat=
ions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DWW-Default><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>1.23 </sp=
an>that studies have taken into account CEPT proposals under agenda 1.=
10 in this frequency range; <span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>some (CEPT) administrations ar=
e of the view </span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>that an additional alloc=
ation of</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> 15 </span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>kHz to=
 the amateur service in the frequency band</span><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> 415-526.=
</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>5 kHz is not feasible because it would=
 result in unacceptable harmful interference to the stations operating=
 in the radiocommunication services</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> allocated in th=
e mentioned frequency band. There is no common position yet and discus=
sions continue.</span><span style=3D'color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Further info on 1.16:<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Although the maximum spectral=
 emission of cloud to ground lightning strikes is centred between abou=
t 5 and 20 kHz, spectrum bandwidth of lightning stroke can reach sever=
al megahertz. The possible operation range of </span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>syste=
ms for lightning detection is determined by the used frequency band.=
 In the frequency range 5-20 kHz the sky waves propagate over very lar=
ge distances with relatively little attenuation. Thus, it is possible=
 to receive the emissions from the cloud to ground strokes at thousand=
s of kilometres from the stroke location.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","s=
ans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The optimal frequency for ATD spectral emiss=
ion measurements is around 9.766 kHz. However, the frequency </span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'>13.733 kHz</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> is successfully=
 used by the existing ATD systems for measurements</span><span lang=3D=
EN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";col=
or:#1F497D'>, with a reduction of existing system performance seen at=
 9.766 kHz.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Long-range li=
ghtning detection using observations near 10 kHz has been performed in=
 the UK since 1939, originally with a very manpower-intensive system=
 measuring the direction from which signals were received, and then si=
nce 1987 with an automated Arrival Time Difference system (ATD) using=
 the time differences of signal received to derive strike locations.=
 Now, with modern sensor systems and communications it is possible to=
 monitor the radio frequency received at the sensor in real time. Rece=
nt monitoring since [2004] has shown that it was not practical to use=
 the frequency 9.765625&nbsp;kHz at all the sensor sites, because of=
 powerful transmissions near 10 kHz in some locations which prevented=
 the operation of the passive sensors. Thus, the current system is ope=
rating at 13.733 kHz as noted in Fig.&nbsp;1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:#1F497D'>The 3 dB bandwidth of existing lightning detecti=
on systems is approximately 2.5 kHz and hence an allocation of between=
 3 and 5 kHz bandwidth would be required<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1F497D'>Currently the spectrum below 9 kHz is not allocated to=
 any service but the following footnotes apply:<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>5.53=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></b><span lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Administrations=
 authorizing the use of frequencies below 9 kHz shall ensure that no=
 harmful interference is caused thereby to the services to which the=
 bands above 9&nbsp;kHz are allocated.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>5.54=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></b><span lang=3DEN-AU style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Administrations=
 conducting scientific research using frequencies below 9 kHz are urge=
d to advise other administrations that may be concerned in order that=
 such research may be afforded all practicable protection from harmful=
 interference.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Because=
 of the agenda item at the next WRC. I guess administrations (and Met=
 organisations) are a bit jumpy about allowing precedents for other se=
rvices before a decision is taken by the WRC. The chances of a common=
 CEPT agreement on access conditions for amateurs before the WRC is dr=
eamland stuff!! If each country waited, nothing would happen. Each adm=
inistration is playing it by ear and trying to demonstrate it is compl=
ying with the Radio Regulations =E2=80=93 however illogical the indivi=
dual conditions might appear to amateurs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","s=
ans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#=
1F497D'>Finally, has anyone on this forum seen proposals for a =E2=80=
=9CNew 500 kHz network=E2=80=9D?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#=
1F497D'><a href=3D"http://olivier.marsan.free.fr/N5NTW/NEW500KHZNETWOR=
K.html">http://olivier.marsan.free.fr/N5NTW/NEW500KHZNETWORK.html</a><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div></body></html>

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CB8BFB.FE8A26B0--